1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

Pale Master

Discussion in 'Neverwinter Nights (Classic)' started by T2Bruno, Apr 24, 2009.

  1. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    9,744
    Media:
    15
    Likes Received:
    437
    Gender:
    Male
    I was messing around in HotU again and decided to do a scythe wielding palemaster. So, four levels of fighter (to get exotic, weapon focus - scythe, weapon specialty - scythe), three levels of wizard (chose Necromancer for role playing), then ten levels of palemaster with three more fighter mixed in.

    In the course of events I picked up extend spell, maximize spell, toughness, improved critical - scythe and other non-essential feats. The first epic level I took was fighter to get epic weapon focus and epic weapon specialization in scythe.

    Holy Boop!

    Tebimar's Scythe is awesome. As most know, Rizolvir will only do a set number of upgrades per weapon -- but all the enchantment upgrades only count as one (whether +6 or +10, it's only one upgrade). That means I can get all the other upgrades as well. So now my palemaster is hasted, has true sight, high spell resistance, regenerates -- and the scythe does acid damage.

    Thus far...
    F/W/PM: 8/3/11
    BAB: 33/28/23
    Damage: 2d4+15, +10 physical damage, +2d6 acid, +1d8 Massive Criticals

    Average of 37 damage per hit -- Criticals at 18-20 X4. Over 150 points of damage per critical hit. Add to that the paralyse and insta-kill of the PM (did I mention he's extremely stealthy?) and this is a fun character to play.
     
  2. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,111
    Media:
    99
    Likes Received:
    101
    Gender:
    Male
    Interesting build, a friend of mine went for a PM/WM/Sorcerer but I'm sure your build is without a doubt better at lower levels. Going straight Fighter and Wizard is certainly less boring and more effective.
     
  3. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    9,744
    Media:
    15
    Likes Received:
    437
    Gender:
    Male
    I thought about WM, but it would take to level 15 to start getting WM for a scythe -- and I didn't want to wait that long. The build gets a bit weak during the mid-teens, the summons aren't that great early on and I wanted to ensure Int was high enough for all spells. Bull's Strength is an important spell. One problem if you develop the character in HotU, you don't have the money to buy a decent scythe -- after a few forays you can sell enough stuff to get one. It's painful with just Deekin initially. A bigger problem is the lack of low level spells available (basically you need to cheat in any below 4th level).

    Once I hit 21st level though the epic weapon feats really added to the character. I think the extra +6 damage from specialization is a reasonable alternative to the added criticals of the WM. I can still only cast 5th level spells -- with damage and duration of a 3rd level wizard (for this reason spell selection is very different for this build).
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2009
  4. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,111
    Media:
    99
    Likes Received:
    101
    Gender:
    Male
    That's a valid point about WM, I've tried many WM builds and they are awesome until you get to fight critical resistant foes (the level 10 PM's immunity to crits is not shabby either). The same argument can be made about sneak attacks.

    With a different spell selection did you manage to bypass the low level casting by using spells that are not dependent on level?
     
  5. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    9,744
    Media:
    15
    Likes Received:
    437
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm still getting a handle on the spells. I put everything I could into my spellbook, but only use buffing spells (which are much shorter duration than my sorcerer). High intelligence helps to augment that with increased spells per level.

    Prot from Alignment and Shield are very useful -- many buffing spells last in the span of turns per level or hours per level (especially the ability enhancing spells). My choice of Necromancer excluded True Strike (which would have been very handy). Melf's Acid Arrow lasts for four rounds (enough to give the spell caster problems while I get to him). Stone Bones was a nice addition for the Pale Master summons.

    Ice Storm will do 6d6 (pretty much the top damage spell for me thus far) and Stoneskins lasts 3 hours -- not bad for a tank. Summons though are all the same and the tactic of summoning some distracting pets (or undead) really plays well into this character. Animate Dead is disappointing -- of all spells this one should count PM levels.
     
  6. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,111
    Media:
    99
    Likes Received:
    101
    Gender:
    Male
    Interesting tips T2Bruno. So that's pretty much quantity versus quality then. It's a pity about True Strike but you've certainly made the right choice and the Necromancer really fits this build. I must say I never considered PM to be an effective spellcaster because of that casting level limitation but it looks like you can get some mileage from these 3 wizard levels (and you can always rely on scrolls when the chips are down).
     
  7. Sir Fink Gems: 13/31
    Latest gem: Ziose


    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2005
    Messages:
    576
    Likes Received:
    4
    Spells aren't going to be great for a build like that. Keep taking PM levels for the added AC (every 4 levels?) which should help since he lacks a shield.
     
  8. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,662
    Media:
    38
    Likes Received:
    158
    Gender:
    Male
    I always feel a bit ambivalent about the PM class. On the one hand I think it has some very interesting abilities and bonuses, but on the other hand, it's a melee enhancement for a class which really shouldn't be bothering with melee too much. There's a much greater benefit to be had to just keep on taking caster levels rather than mixing in PM levels. To make matters worse, a PM has the same BAB progression as a wizard or a sorcerer, so you'll really need to mix in Fighter levels if you want to do some melee damage yourself as well.

    The only exception would be taking PM levels on a Bard, which has a better BAB progression than the other spell casting classes. I once did a B/PM/RDD, which was pretty awesome, considering all the immunities you'll have at the end.
     
  9. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    9,744
    Media:
    15
    Likes Received:
    437
    Gender:
    Male
    Thus far I've wiped the floors with golems and beholders in the underdark. The guardian golems and the demilich were pretty easy (no buffs for the golems and just minor buffs for the demilich). I have 5th level spells and a reasonable number I can cast per day -- many of these spells last three hours (good for a romp) or three rounds (good for a fight). My next level-up I should get access to 6th level spells. I've collected all of Nasher's items for the big stat bonuses and it's really paying off for this character.

    The immunities and AC bonuses are great. I'll be trying for one hit kills on the elves on the other island with my PM abilities to see how those go -- I keep forgetting about it (I should have tried it on the duergars but was having too much fun doing my 160+ points of damage with the scythe). After all I did select the unarmed attack feat, might as well use it.
     
  10. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    9,744
    Media:
    15
    Likes Received:
    437
    Gender:
    Male
    Well the insta-death becomes less useful as you go along. I went on a little killing spree and found it about as affective as 'Finger of Death' -- which means by the time your in the second chapter of HotU it's pretty useless.

    On the plus side, Mephisto went down really easy with this guy -- Arabeth is truly awesome as a blackguard (this was the first game I didn't have her go back to good). She's a riot if you sell her true name -- she even says "I dare you" and then threatens as she's taken away. Having the Sensei as the planetars one true love sucked -- what a poor ending. It seems the only good ending for the guy are when one of the characters is his true love.

    I hit a bug in the final fight and big M wouldn't talk to me until after I had nearly killed him -- what a waste of 800,000 gold. I had his true name and couldn't command him to be my servant in hell. So I killed him ... over and over while I tried to get the dialog to initiate. In six or seven battles no one died, I only had to heal Nathyrra in one of the battles. Even my WM didn't fare that well.

    Well, now to try the Shifter and see if I can get the Nathyrra romance (you'd think a drow would instantly fall for a guy who could become a minotaur at will -- especially given how she treats the planetar if she's his one true love). The choice of forms is tricky until you hit 11th level shifter and get the epic minotaur -- the rakshasa's were a pain in the ass (why can't the manticore fire blessed tail spikes?). The epic minotour is a powerhouse -- he pretty much makes all other forms obsolete, even the steroid tiger. The undead forms can't compete for damage (although they're fun -- I need to try the specter on the duergar). The outsider forms look interesting -- I'll get those for my next feat.
     
  11. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,662
    Media:
    38
    Likes Received:
    158
    Gender:
    Male
    I've only turned her to evil once too, and she was a bundle of laughs together with Valen. The bickering back and forth was hilarious.

    A shifter is pure fun incarnate. Epic Minotaur is very good, as is the epic Drider and Drow. Even more fun is that if you have a weapon that does elemental damage, it stacks with their elemental damage. But the best thing is the unlimited transformations you get at higher levels. Changing back and forth between all the different forms without limits makes for very interesting battles.

    The undead forms are nice, especially the Risen Lord, which has 50% slashing and piercing damage reduction (great vs. Mephi). I thought the Outsider shapes were only so so, but the golem shapes are pretty nifty, though suffering of the same problem that the dragon shapes have: their fists/claws don't hit as magical weapons, so you can't bypass damage resistance.

    The biggest downside to the shifter build I did (Druid 20/Monk 3/Shifter 17) was the poor BAB. Most forms are heavily melee oriented, but I had a hard time hitting some enemies. Especially the demi-lich and the Valsharess were a real challenge. I actually only managed to defeat the Valsharess with relative ease by getting a lucky 1 roll for her on my Basilisk's gaze, turning her to stone.
     
  12. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    9,744
    Media:
    15
    Likes Received:
    437
    Gender:
    Male
    Thus far the shifter is the only character I've had that couldn't beat the Maker. It did fine with the dracolich (it was difficult for the shifter, but a piece of cake for the Pale Master). The shifter handled the vampire just before the dracolich easily -- by far the easiest battle I've had against him.

    I've gotten the outsider forms and like the rakshasa -- battle against the mages are easy but I was disappointed that beholders could still zap me. The azur chief is basically a short epic minotaur. The death slaad may be good on a low magic mod, but is really mediocre in HotU (although he may do well in the antimagic zone under the beholders).

    The epic drow is good, but I've just gotten that form as well. Too bad the designers didn't add additional content (dialogue) for when you talk to people in various forms.
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.