1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

Overweight? Fine

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Silvery, May 17, 2011.

  1. Silvery

    Silvery I won't pretend to be your friend coz I'm just not ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    3,224
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    215
    Gender:
    Female
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13397306

    Personally, I agree. If you are overweight for no other reason than you eat too much then the state shouldn't have to fund your problems. I'm fat and a smoker and if the law came in over here then I'd suck it up and either pay the fine or diet!
    The proposal isn't penalising people who have a genuine reason for weight-gain, it's made quite clear that people with medical conditions that cause increased weight so it's just going to be the people who sit on theirs arses all day and stuff crisps in their mouth!
     
  2. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    12,434
    Media:
    46
    Likes Received:
    249
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't think I agree with the plan. First of all, it applies only to people on Medicaid. People who are on Medicaid are already poor. Fining them $50 doesn't seem particularly nice... if they had money, they wouldn't be on Medicaid in the first place.

    Secondly, defining what is overweight is a tricky subject. For some cases, it's rather cut and dry. If you're 5 feet tall and weigh in excess of 200 pounds, yeah, you're really overweight.

    But the guidelines are rather stringent. For example, I'm 5'9" tall, and my "healthy weight" is 170 pounds according to most nutritionists. By that standard I'm a rather significant 15 pounds overweight. However, most people wouldn't call me fat. (Take a look at the pictures of me posted in my photo albumns - do I look fat to you?)
     
  3. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2001
    Messages:
    8,547
    Media:
    88
    Likes Received:
    369
    Gender:
    Male
    You mean the picture of you from three years ago . . . ?
     
  4. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    12,434
    Media:
    46
    Likes Received:
    249
    Gender:
    Male
    Well... they aren't 3 years old - some of them are taken after Jack's 2nd birthday, and since he's currently 3... well, they're about a year old. (I have to post more recent pictures.) The larger point is, if anything, I'm in a little better shape than I was a year or so ago. That's when I started P90X, and if anything I'm in better shape now than when the pictures were taken. Regardless, I do not look significantly different now as compared to then.
     
  5. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2001
    Messages:
    8,547
    Media:
    88
    Likes Received:
    369
    Gender:
    Male
    I know. I'm just pulling your leg. I think we've discussed it here before, but these ideal weight concepts are holdovers from a time when people didn't work out as much as they do now. With muscle averaging five times denser than fat, it's pretty easy for a person to be considered overweight when they are no such thing.

    Heck, I'm probably obese based on ideal weight concepts and I really only have about 10-15 pounds to lose to be in pretty phenomenal shape (that's what happens when your exercise time takes a hit on job change . . . )
     
  6. Morgoroth

    Morgoroth Just because I happen to have tentacles, it doesn'

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,392
    Likes Received:
    45
    I don't think I agree either. Personally I think taxing fat unhealthy food, cigarettes and alcohol is the way to go and not forgetting proper education and dietary guidelines for kids. The policy might also be counterproductive. Unhealthy food can often be faster and cheaper than having a proper diet and the fine might cause further financial problems.

    The bodyweight index is generally not a very good indicator on how "fat" you are. If you do a lot of strength training you are bound have a lot of muscle mass you are bound to weight more but might very well have a lower than average percentage of body fat. Personally I usually go a little down in weight if I for some reason have a longer pause in training even though my diet more or less stays the same (protein intake won't probably be quite on the same level though). If the BMI goes over the line the obesity, however, it's my understanding that it's nearly always unhealthy.
     
  7. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2000
    Messages:
    23,149
    Media:
    494
    Likes Received:
    503
    Gender:
    Male
    This is one of those things where if you'd want to be fair you'd need to fine or additionally tax anyone who stands out for risk of injury or disease through their own doing... which for example also means anyone who engages in sports with a higher than average number of injuries and/or with the risk of more severe injuries which would require much more state money for treatment. And not just sports... hobbies, pastimes, driving accident history, etc. It's such a slippery slope that it's anybody's guess where it'd end.

    If the miracle solution to being fat would be "just" to diet, then there wouldn't be any fat people. Thing is, most people have psychological reasons for being fat, i.e. they compensate for something with food. That's why by far the majority of people who diet or even reach their ideal weight through dieting gain all the weight back, usually sooner rather than later. The psychological reasons are still there and losing weight usually doesn't make them go away. I thought that this was rather well-known by now, so I'm surprised that any country with a modern health system would enact fines based on apparent ignorance of the underlying causes for obesity...

    I guess the list of stupid ideas just keeps on expanding whereas I have yet to hear of a state which would enact tax breaks on healthy food or subsidize healthy food to make it accessible to everyone, not only to the relatively wealthy. I'm sure that that would cost much less overall than trying to fix the consequences of people buying cheap food, which also happens to have the lowest nutritional and highest caloric value.
     
  8. Drew

    Drew Arrogant, contemptible, and obnoxious Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,605
    Media:
    6
    Likes Received:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    Gigantic. Colossal. A walking coronary. I'm worried for you, man, I really am. :p

    Don't forget the Herpes! Anyone who engages in high risk sexual behaviour should also be taxed, since they put more than just themselves at risk.
     
  9. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2000
    Messages:
    23,149
    Media:
    494
    Likes Received:
    503
    Gender:
    Male
    Yea, and anybody with AIDS or any other STD... if you keep up this witch hunt long enough and expand the search in all possible areas, I'm sure you could additionally tax at least 50% of the population for one reason or another. Ka-ching!
     
  10. Mesmero

    Mesmero How'd an old elf get the blues?

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2001
    Messages:
    1,958
    Likes Received:
    12
    I think that people who go outside should be taxed, as exposure to the sun can cause various skin conditions.

    This Medicaid is from the government right? Since food is taxed, and people who get fat simply because they eat too much buy more food, aren't they already paying more taxes?

    Same goes for smokers. I've had the discussion once with a friend of mine who said smokers should pay more taxes, because they are in more risk of getting sick. Looking at the price of a pack of cigarettes, smokers are already paying it.

    Everybody should pay exactly the same on a monthly basis, since everybody has some habit, hobby or whatever that puts them at risk of getting injured or sick. People who indulge extra are already taxed extra.
     
  11. Silvery

    Silvery I won't pretend to be your friend coz I'm just not ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    3,224
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    215
    Gender:
    Female
    Junk food should be taxed. REALLY taxed. Problem solved :lol:
     
  12. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,342
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    219
    Gender:
    Male
    And everyone who doesn't go outside should be taxed because of health problems related to lack of vitamin D production. There! Now 100% of people are taxed extra and most are taxed twice because they do both! :lol:
     
  13. Sir Rechet

    Sir Rechet I speak maths and logic, not stupid Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,345
    Likes Received:
    64
    Aren't life insurance companies rather good at this stuff already? I mean, you pay an extra premium for quite a few things - smoking being the obvious number one, but a number of other reasons, both voluntary and involuntary, can give you a "raise" as well.

    Too bad you can't tax the actual ignorance/laziness/negligence causing the undesired behaviour. That'd be sweet.
     
  14. Gothmog

    Gothmog Man, a curious beast indeed! ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2002
    Messages:
    1,829
    Likes Received:
    6
    [​IMG] "Overweight? Fine"


    1. Of superior quality, skill, or appearance
    2. Very small in size, weight, or thickness
    3-10. 8 sarcastic definitions of a "fine" overweight person.
    11. Satisfactory; acceptable
    12. Being in a state of satisfactory health; quite well
    13. A sum of money required to be paid as a penalty for an offense.


    A fine title ;)
     
  15. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    12,434
    Media:
    46
    Likes Received:
    249
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes, and being overweight causes an increased premium, and being obese is a big increase.
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.