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Overrated / underrated NPCs

Discussion in 'Baldur's Gate (Classic)' started by Killjoy, Aug 24, 2006.

  1. Killjoy Gems: 8/31
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    Following this thread, let's use this one to discuss overrated or surprisingly good NPCs from original BG.

    Underrated:
    Xzar - Yes, he can't cast mirror image, which is a pretty significant weakness, but he has surprisingly good stats (really good stats for a MU) and bonus specialist spells.

    Monty - Very well-rounded combat stats and a decent thief and pretty good assassin. It's unfortunate that he doesn't have 19 DEX, but that's what CHARNAME is for.

    Overrated:
    Jaheira - Man alive, I'm sick of this character. She isn't a good fighter and levels slowly, and in BG, druid spells aren't all that great (and the ones she gets, she gets slowly because of her multiclass status). She's also another example of BIO screwing the pooch on alignment vs. personality; she acts like she should be chaotic good (the TN alignment is only so she can be a druid according to 2E rules).

    Khalid - Blah blah blah only good-aligned pure fighter blah blah only good-aligned fighter who can get 5* proficiency blah blah. The guy isn't as powerful a tank as Minsc or as well-rounded as Ajantis, and certainly no substitute for a big, beefy CHARNAME fighter. Plus he's a half-elf, so no dual-classing option here, thank you very much. Ch-ch-ch-shut up.

    [ August 24, 2006, 08:03: Message edited by: Killjoy ]
     
  2. Fly2tHeSkY

    Fly2tHeSkY Southern Comfort Veteran

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    :lol: OBVIOUSLY someone was gettin sick of the other thread with people favouring one or two characters :p

    I do agree with you though, Jaheira is WAY overrated. "Give her the DEX bracers and the poison dagger and she's a killing machine" AHHAHAHAHAHA dream on. She's P-A-T-H-E-T-I-C! Pathetic I tell you :D

    I do also believe that Tiax is overrated. WHAT's SO GOOD ABOUT HIM! HE'S WEAK!!! Get that through your thick heads please, just because he makes famous appearances doesn't make him special. You know what WOULD make him special? If someone put him on display and threw an ace at his face. Heh :D
     
  3. Felinoid

    Felinoid Who did the what now? ★ SPS Account Holder

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    Actually, I find Khalid more often underrated than overrated simply because so many people act like he's the worst character in the game. He is well-rounded, with good STR, DEX and CON, and being a pure fighter does make a difference in BG1. He's definitely not the best on the block, but he's not the worst either. His real problem is not having a dump stat like Ajantis has with DEX, meaning you're likely to use stat-increasing items on other people who need it more.

    I also don't find Xzar or Monty that underrated because people do actually appreciate their skills. In fact, Xzar's pretty famous by now for being able to dual-class to cleric (with a Tome, admittedly, but it's not like there aren't plenty of them). They're probably not taken as much becase of Kagain and Edwin's skills, but that speaks more to Kagain and Edwin than Monty and Xzar.

    And Tiax. Honestly, what are you smoking today, Silver? I don't think there's anyone who would rate him higher than fair, and it'd be like a needle in a haystack to try to find someone who would rate him that high, or rather that "not low".

    Hard to argue with Jaheira, especially on the alignment issue (she ought to be a Good Ranger/Priest of a nature deity; effectively a Ranger/Druid), but I think it's the effect of her being so incredibly much better in BG2 than BG1 that people carry that impression over. She can be pretty decent with DEX gloves and one of Drizzt's scimitars or the Dagger of Venom, but really, so could anyone else. And on that note...

    Overrated:
    Minsc - Decent in BG2 with a personality that'll make you keep him around despite there being someone better, in BG1 he has much less personality and worse stats, but like Jaheira, people tend to love him from BG2 and transfer that over. And like Khalid, he's got just high enough DEX and CON that you're better off using stat-increasing items on someone else. The worst of both worlds, and though he does make a decent tank with great damage due to his uber STR (to take Killjoy's line, that's what the PC is for), most are better suited to just plain not getting killed.

    Imoen - Yes, she's your 'sister', yes you get her right away so that you can build her skills to your liking, yes she's got great stats and you can even dual her to a mage. But she doesn't belong in every party. Take Safana or Monty or Coran sometime and let the girl (and yourself) have a rest. You can only hear Imoen's lines so many months in a row before you really just want to frigging strangle her.

    Underrated:
    Yeslick - A great cleric and great tank with the DEX gloves, people pooh-pooh choosing him because of getting him in Cloakwood. And yet Coran is not penalized nearly as much for also being in Cloakwood.

    I'm tempted to put Ajantis here too, not because of people thinking he's bad, but because most don't think highly enough of him because they don't consider Protection from Evil. It's 2 points of AC for those big fights (in vanilla BG1 but not Tutu or BG2), and having multiple castings per day on a non-multi warrior makes him the second best NPC tank in the game IMO (just behind Kagain for his regen). Any AC that you can get on a tank with any equipment setup, Ajantis can beat by two points because of PfE.

    Of course, one could counter by saying that any priest can cast it too, but priests are too busy with CLW and Entangle in their first level slots. With PfE being almost forced on Ajantis, it finally becomes part of your strategy, and your tanks start achieving a lower AC than they otherwise would.
     
  4. Fly2tHeSkY

    Fly2tHeSkY Southern Comfort Veteran

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    :lol: My opinions aren't really agreeing with you today are they Fel :D Nah I guess I just don't find Tiax that much of a good party member. Quite average I guess.

    Your views on Khalid are IDENTICAL to mine, he's quite average but can rise or drop in party value depending on how you play him.
     
  5. kuemper Gems: 31/31
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    His voiceset. :p

    Overrated:

    Viconia - The best things said are: she's an evil, single-classed cleric and she has 50% magic resistance. Both are double-edged swords. She'll leave your party just as you are getting infamous along the Coast and she hasn't figured out how to lower her MR so friendly spells can affect her. The big reason she's overrated for me is this ZMOG she's teh HAWT junk she inspires. The only what she's hawt is if she is on fire.

    I'll edit when I can think of someone that's underrated.
     
  6. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    I'm not so sure Ajantis is underrated. Actually, I'm one of those people who don't think he's a very good choice (despite the fact that he's in my current party). The problem is that both his strength and dexterity are somewhat lacking. That's a problem because you can't fix both. So you either have to give him the GoD, and have to live with the +1 to hit/+1 to damage, or give him the GoOP, and have to live with (or more appropriately die with) a not-so-great AC.

    Also, while I am in agreement that both Minsc and Jaheira are buffed up stat-wise in BG2 compared to BG1, I feel that Minsc is still a very usable character in BG1. If I am using both him and Khalid as my tanks, I have no problems. I almost always give the GoD to a tank for the lower AC, and it helps Minsc greatly (even though he does have an AC bonus of 1 without the gauntlets, it goes up to 4 with the gauntlets). So compared to Ajantis, he has much better strength +2 to hit/+5 to damage, equal dexterity (I'm assuming whichever one you chose you'd give them the GoD) and a constitution of only one lower (so you're looking at a maximum of 11 hp per level up as opposed to 12 hp).
     
  7. Decados

    Decados The Chosen One

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    I wouldn't have said Jaheria is THAT bad Silvershield; she isn't great but she's a fair bit better than pathetic.

    Overrated:

    Minsc- because of his strength and BGII usefulness, seems to be liked far more than logic would dictate. Sure strength is very useful, but so are Dex and Con, which he is rather average in.

    Viconia - she would be quite useful, being an evil pure-classed cleric, but the 50% immunity to spells like Haste, Bless and curing spells means that I rarely bother with her.


    Underrated:

    Yeslick - I really don't get why people dislike him. He's tough, can wear full plate and carry a shield. IMO he makes a great tank, especially as he can heal and buff himself and others from the front-line.
     
  8. kmonster Gems: 24/31
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    underrated: Khalid, Quayle(actually one of the best characters if not the best), Montaron, Tiax, Garrick, Imoen (as mage), Branwen, Yeslick, Faldorn

    overrated: Edwin, Safana, Minsc, Kivan, Jaheira
     
  9. Dengo Gems: 8/31
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    I think all characters are overrated. All of them have weaknesses. None of them has perfect stats. I may seem like a powergamer but some fights are so hard even with minmax-ed characters, i don't believe i can finish the game with these NPCs. I've tried to play with a party once and they got injured so much i was bored of trying to heal them and sleeping after every fight.

    I finished this game with solo chars lots of times and all of them was easier then trying to save Minsc or Kivan from death. Look at huge Minsc's constitution: 15. Even Dynaheir and Imoen has 16 constitution and they aren't frontliners. And Kivan's dexterity: 17. Lots of characters have more than or equal to 17 dex. And he is supposed to be an Elven Archer type character. I'm sure other elves kicked him away from their forest for being such a loser...
     
  10. ObviousDelirium Gems: 3/31
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    I think you're the one who doesn't really know how to play with a party then, frankly, if you know your thing, you're going to be able to plan a lot of tactics which saves you from needing to heal constantly and make things much easier.

    I also think Jaheira is overrated, I really can't see why her BG1 counterpart is liked so much. I'm not sure about which other I'd consider overrated or underrated, I usually find a use for them, tho there are a few characters I never tried (Tiax, Quayle, Viconia, Garrick). I do think Xan is sort of underrated though.
     
  11. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    17 DEX is not bad, it's a very good stat though in BG most NPCs get very high stats (Imoen is just uber in that matter).
    If you don't powergame or min max stats you will find that 17 is a very honourable stat (Coran gets 20 but that's way too high IMHO).
    Plus Kivan has a very high STR, I don't think other elves would look him down or consider him to be a "loser". Bows are so powerful in BG1 that most of the time Kivan got one of the highest number of kills in my parties.
     
  12. Klorox

    Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! Veteran

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    Wow, people underrate Yeslick? He's one of my favorite characters in the whole saga!
     
  13. Redrake Gems: 7/31
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    Indeed. Yeslick is the best cleric to have in a good aligned party.
    Jaheira however, while she's very good in BG2, in BG1 she's not very usefull. Beside being paired with Khalid, she is on low level and there aren't any magic weapons for her until late in the game.
    I usually dump her as soon as I reach Beregost. If Khalid dies before this, I might consider keeping her until I get Yeslick.
    In my parties usually Kivan and Shar-Teel are on the top with the highest kills.
     
  14. Bassil Warbone Gems: 12/31
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    Just a few of my thoughts on the subject:

    Xzar- I think he has been underated in the past because as a single class mage with a low CON.and lack of illusionist spells he was hard to live with. But now that his ability to be dual-class to cleric or a thief has come to light, he gains in stature and can be a stand out performer with many RP options, WOW!

    Xan- Always a bridesmaid and never a bride. Low hit points, weak in spell selection? weak in melee?, doomsday attitude! BW-AH-AHUK! CHOKe! But seriously, he has uses. Like most NPCs with these problems, potions of fortitude, str, dex, come in handy and he gets necromancy spells and some of the other spells can be made up for by wands. If you take the time to develope him he can become a decent and useful mage. And That doom & gloom attitude can even grow on you. ;)

    minsc- His brawn is of great use, he has a humorus relationship with Shar-Teel and swings 'The World's Edge' with a devistating delivery. I have always respected his ability with a sword and to some degree a bow. I don't think he can be overestimated. I think the designers made him perfect. Any stronger in dex & con and he would be totaly unbalanced. Who wants some!!!

    Viconia- I think what drives the excitment around her is that she is a Drow and a badgirl! I believe she is not overestimated, just overly desired. I have used her to great effect every time I pick her. It takes a few magic Items to supe her up, but she she can hold the front line well and seems to rarly get hit. all in all another well balanced NPC! :cool:

    Yeslick- I was a big fan of Yeslick until I took him to Durlags Tower. In every tough battle he would quickly be in trouble and need help. I had to move him from the frontline to a backup role. A disapointing show. His animate dead came in handy and he was handy as a cleric. But as a fighter? I would rather take a single class fighter and a single class cleric than keep him for very long. A shame really, If his stats were to be adjusted he could be a real joy. But as it is his str.,dex. both need help if he is to be a good fighter and a point or two in con. would be very nice! As a cleric :) as a fighter :( .

    Garrick- A highly underrated NPC. I can not say enough good thing about this guy! He has been the savior in many a tough spots, taken down Sarevok one on one and many other increadible feats. His ability to reach level 10, use scolls and wands while in armor, reach a higher level than a mage, hve more hit points and can use any weapon. All of this makes one hell of a powerhouse in BG1. what a guy!

    Quayle- He is so underrated because of his stats and his personality. but I liked him the one time I used him. Due to his class combo he has a lot of spells but, man, thoses gawd aweful stats! His special ability of an extra invisability spell comes in handy when he gets closed in on by a dangerous foe. His THAC0 isn't to bad because of his cleric class and there are a lot of decent protections for a mage in BG1. After a while his annoying remarks get to be amusing and his mage spells combine with his pteist spells and potions can make hime a tough combatant if need be. He may be annoying and his stats may blow goats but his class combination is a good one and he can be made into a survivable NPC if not a great one.

    Kivan- He is a wonderful NPC with a killler personality to boot! Well made stat-wise and deadly with a bow. All this makes for one highly overrated NPC. Many NPCs are as good as Kivan, the biggest reason to take him over the others is personality, character and roleplay fun. And those are darn good reasons in my book!

    Faldorn- Not only is she underrated, but I think she isn't even considered by most (and in the past this included me). But after trying her once I am hooked! She may not be the best priest at low levels but give her time and she wil pay her way twice over! Since she is a single class Druid she will level up quickly and her summon spells get to be increadible. She can shape change to heal herself, cast spells at a higher level than a cleric, and develope into a good combatant. I haven't fully explored her potential yet but she is shaping up to be a Cindarella story on the order of Xzar & Garrick. :love:
     
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