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New to NWN, have a few doubts...

Discussion in 'Neverwinter Nights (Classic)' started by AjaX, Dec 9, 2008.

  1. AjaX Gems: 4/31
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    Well, I was always an Icewind Dale 2 player, but now equipped with a non-neolithic PC, I've shifted to NWN. The differences between the 2 are quite evident, yet I have certain specific doubts and would appreciate it if I get some answers-:
    1. Is it possible for a char to have levels in 2 entirely separate Prestige Classes, assuming requirements of both are met?
    2. Related to the 1st, assuming you CAN level in 2 Prestige Classes, can you be epic in both?
    3. Some opinions on the usefulness of a Shifter class please.
     
  2. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    1. Yes. Two prestige classes can make an extremely powerful character.
    2. Yes. Except Harper Scout.
    3. Shifter is a great class -- it can be extremely fun once you learn the strengths of the different forms.
     
  3. AjaX Gems: 4/31
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    Cool, thanks. One more thing, supposing I have a char with Epic Fighter levels, and a few Sorcerer levels. When I take a Sorcerer level, can I choose Feats from the Epic Fighter class of feats?
     
  4. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    I don't think you can.

    On the shifter prestige class, there's a great faq on the class that will give you a lot of in-depth info on the various transformations, which'll let you get a better idea of when to use which class. It's a very fun class to play with, very varied.

    [Please don't link to other sites for what can be found on SP. Thanks! -Tal]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2008
  5. AjaX Gems: 4/31
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    Thanks a lot for the FAQ, its a great help. Another question: is a Sorc/Weapons Master/Pale Master multiclass possible?

    ---------- Added 15 hours, 10 minutes and 33 seconds later... ----------

    Umm... right...
    One more question, in case anyone will be kind enough to answer: Are Rapiers regarded as light weapons in terms of using Dual wielding (using human race char)?
     
  6. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Sorc/WM/PM is possible, just not very easy. It takes a long time to gain the feats necessary for WM -- I think you could start WM at ~level 12 or 15 (higher if you want the scythe). You must pick your weapon focus (and weapon proficiency-exotic if you want to wield a scythe) in sorcerer levels. Wizard works well for the PM also. The combo of Sorc/RDD/WM is quite good.

    Rapiers are light weapons. They are the only medium sized weapon that is light. In the OC you can make a great rapier which has a sleep special affect -- my fighter/thief used a rapier/short sword combo with great affectiveness (the short sword you can make causes daze, between the two I got a lot of sneak attacks).
     
  7. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    As T2Bruno mentions, the Sorc/WM/PM is possible, but not the easiest/most powerful option. Provided you're a human and take a Weapon Focus in a simple weapon, you can start WM levels after lvl 12, lvl 15 if you want to use a martial weapon or pick a race that isn't human, 18 if you want to use an exotic weapon (and are human).

    Note, though, that the sorcerer has very poor Base Attack Bonus progression (1 per 2 levels), which means that you'll might not be hitting as accurately, even though you're a Weapon Master. In this respect, making a Bard/WM/PM is the more powerful choice, as the Bard get +3 BAB per 4 levels.
     
  8. AjaX Gems: 4/31
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    Ah, ok. Thanks for the input. I've started playing the OC and SoU, and I have the Diamond Edition of the game. In the OC I'm planning my char as Ranger 9/Wizard 11/Weapons Master 20 (of course he'll realistically only be Ranger 6-7 /Wizard 5/WM 6 or so), and in SoU its a Bard 16/RDD 12/Pale master 12. Both are DEX based & Rapier users, except the Ranger is dual wielding them and focusing on Criticals. The Bard is more defense oriented, relying on the RDD and PM bonuses & his songs for protection.
    I just want to know your opinions on these characters. Will they be reasonable to play? Can they attain a reasonably high AC? What about their attack power? I've done my own bit of research, but I'm not so familiar with this game yet..
     
  9. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    You're only going to get ~13 levels in SoU. Combining RDD and PM may not be feasible. I had a lot of fun with a Barbarian/Sorc/RDD.

    For the OC, I chose not to use prestige classes (the game was not designed with those in mind). However, level 7 is usually the main goal for a WM. You really don't gain anything with 6-7 levels of ranger (or even nine for that matter), fighter gets you to WM much faster and the WM feats can get you dual wielding. In fact, a human with 8 levels of fighter will have all the feats for dual wielding and weapon master. You won't need any of the low level wizard buffs (there are enough potions). Also for a weapon master you should be looking at the critical hit range and mulitplier -- the real power in the WM is the critical hits. I had a halfling F/WM who dualled kukri's, she was hitting critical hits on ~50% of her attacks.

    I would recommend against a straight dex build. Dex is great, but does not add to damage. Put your dex and intelligence where they need to be for WM, then concentrate of building strength.

    Don't over analyze the game and class combinations. Play what you like and add the prestige classes that make sense to your style of play. Any class can beat any of the official games. Unless you're going in a player versus player arena the issue of high AC and attack power are really not that important to the official games. You'll get a high enough AC with the equipment you'll find and your attack power will also be adequate for most situations.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2008
  10. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    While this is true, you can easily take your SoU character into HotU after you've finished, as these are designed to be played one after the other. You can count on around 26 levels at the end of HotU, which, for the full experience of what both classes have to offer, you will probably want to divide as Bard 6/ RDD 10/ PM 10.

    I'd take RDD first, after the required 5 Bard levels, then switch to PM once RDD reaches 10, with perhaps the sixth Bard level in between (but preferably pre-epic wherever you decide to put it) to maximise some skills that only the Bard has access to.

    For this build I'd stick to strength, as T2 also suggests for the WM build. Once you hit 26 (for Devastating Critical, provided you can get all the prerequisite feats before the end of HotU, which'll probably be very difficult), then I'd switch to CON. Now, this is just my preference, but for any RDD build, I usually get my CON up to 22 as well, to get Epic Damage Reduction I-III. I made a Bard 20/RDD 10/PM 10 once as well, and for this character I find it especially fitting to have all the EDR feats, as it makes her even tougher. To me, this is what this character is all about anyway, with all of her immunities, she's a survivor that can dish out a ton of damage as well.

    And of course she uses a two-handed weapon to profit from her monstrous strength (the STR bonus to damage is multiplied by 1.5 for two-handed weapons).
     
  11. AjaX Gems: 4/31
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    Man thats a lot to digest... so basically, high AC is not that huge a deal in NWN campaigns eh? Then i think I can change the Ranger's stats somewhat, and raise STR more. It'd be worth it in the long run I hope?
    Having 9 levels of Ranger only gets me the two weapon fighting and stuff without spending feats on them, leaving me feats for other things. I took the Wizard class for the buffs to get high AC, as I did think that I could not sensibly focus ONLY in DEX. Also i'd get the Keen Edge & True Strike spells. But if I don't focus in DEX, and am using Leather Armor, won't my AC be too low?

    As for the SoU character, I'm thinking it might get too complicated... How is a Sorcerer/Pale Master combo for SoU? Later on I can make him Sorcerer 22/PM 18 or Sorc 20/PM 20 with max Automatic Still Spell and use all armors and stuff. Feasible? Powerful?
     
  12. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    A high AC is not really a big deal in the official campaigns, no. Nor much in most of the mods I've played, actually. Rather than AC, I'd go for damage reduction and regeneration items. In the OC and HotU, belts are available which give you 20/- DR vs. either slashing, piercing or blunt damage, depending on the belt. With this you can weather pretty much any melee opponent you encounter.

    From a power gamer's perspective, the Ranger is somewhat inferior to the Fighter. With Ranger 9 you'll have 'free' Improved Two-weapon Fighting and the Dual Wield thing, but you'll only retain your Dual Wield bonuses if you wear light armor. The fighter on the other hand has 5 extra feats at fighter lvl 8, which will easily get you the Ambidextrous, Two-weapon Fighting and Improved TWF feats, then lets you chose some additional feats for the WM class. This lets you get WM levels sooner. I think you could have all the feats at lvl 8 (including the dual wield feats) and start building WM levels from lvl 9, as opposed to lvl 13 for a Ranger.

    Of course, the ranger can be quite nice from a role playing perspective. It also gets spell casting and a familiar, but you'll need to invest points in WIS to be able to use the spells, which puts even more strain on your ability point distribution, as you'll need 13 DEX for Dodge and 13 INT for Expertise. (By the way, there's a really good guide here on the SP which gives a very good overview of the various feats and their requirements.)

    A Sorcerer/PM would certainly work, and quite easily so as well. The problem I had with starting your experience as a spell caster in NWN as a sorcerer is that it is rather difficult to determine beforehand which spells are useful and which aren't. You can change spells with every level up as a Sorcerer, though, so you can play around with it a bit, though the Wizard allows more freedom in this and as such may make a more suitable class for a first playthrough with a spell slinger. The sorcerer does allow for more flexible spell casting with the spells he actually has, though.

    Anyway, maybe that's just me and my aversion of the fidliness of spell casting classes - too much micro management to my taste. Regardless of this, though, I never really got the PM as a prestige class for the Sorcerer and the Wizard. It seems to be an augmentation of the spellcaster's melee abilities, or rather his ability to survive in melee, but the spellcaster shouldn't even be in melee in the first place.

    Of course, this is unavoidable for the most part, what with the party management in NWN, so it's good to be able to take a beating, but I'd still rather take more spellcaster levels so I'll be able to dish out more damage before they get close.

    That being said, if you like the idea, you should definitely play this combo and have fun, because that's what it's all about anyway: fun. Getting the most powerful characters might be nice, but it should first and foremost be a lot of fun to play.

    A side note: you need level 9 spell casting and Spellcraft at 24 before you'll be able to start taking the Automatic Still Spell range of feats, meaning that unless you take most of your Sorcerer levels before going epic, you'll probably won't even be able to get the first of the Automatic Still Spell feats before the end of HotU.

    I've always found it helpful to be able to test out my characters in-game, so I'd be able to make sure that I'm able to take the feats I'd like to have when I planned to take them. Therefore, I downloaded a module that allows me to lvl my characters from 1-40 as I see fit, strip them of their levels, and buy some extra gear for them (only stuff available in the official campaigns, though). The NWNVault is a good place to go look for such a module. I think the one I use most is this one. There's also this site that let's you search the Bioware NWN forums for various builds, in case you'd like to get some more ideas for builds.

    This may all seem somewhat overwhelming in quantity of data, but don't let that deter you. Just think of a build you think you'll like and start a game with it, rather than plan for a perfect build for your first character.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2008
  13. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    A level 40 sorcerer is going to be more feasible and more powerful than the Sorc/PM combo. If you want some melee capability, add the RDD levels and choose Tenser's Transformation (make sure you also have the extend spell feat). If you want a lot of melee capability -- Fighter/Weapon Master.
     
  14. AjaX Gems: 4/31
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    I'm more of a powergamer, I adapt my roleplaying to my powergaming. What you say about the Ranger is making me think I need to restart the OC again T_T (and I'm in Peninsula district). What should I do now?
    SoU I can easily restart. I'm thinking of going for either an Arcane Archer build in that or the Sorc/PM build...
     
  15. Munchkin Blender Gems: 22/31
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    Yes and no. You can choose the feats that are open to any Epic Character per your class level up if the character meets the feat requirement; however, you cannot select Epic Weapon Specialization as that is a feat only available only when leveling up a fighter.

    ---------- Added 0 hours, 11 minutes and 6 seconds later... ----------

    I recommend going to the NWN Wiki page and reviewing all the different builds there. I too had a hard time deciding on the character to play. I ended up playing a Monk/Rogue/Fighter through the OC and a Monk/Fighter through the SoU and HotU. The game gives you plenty of magical items and gold to use from beginning to end.

    In all honesty I wouldn't even bother playing the OC; it was junk, seriously the worst RPG I have played. I recommend SoU and HotU; though the story on all of the modules from NWN1 seem to be kind of lame.
     
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