New case of political violence

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I dont really think that this is something most people have heard about nor care much about but it is as the assassination of Pim Fortoyn last year a distressing sign of what is happening to the western democracy.

Earlier today the Swedish foreign minister Anna Lindh was stabbed repeatedly in fashionable clothing shop in downtown Stockholm. She seems to be surviving but this is the first act of severe violence against a famous and respected politician in Sweden since the assassination of primeminister Olof Palme in 1986.

Sweden is about to have a referendum about the EMU this Sunday and Lindh has been a well known face for the yes camp. Both the camps have decided to cancel all further debates and similar for the time being.

The reason I post this here is that I find it horrible and very dangerous when politicans are in danger, no matter what your own personal view of them might be. Here in Sweden we have a long history of openess, Lindh had no protection whatsoever when she was assaulted. Our politicians are used to move around among the citizens without the isolation a bodyguard or two entitles. It is but the primeminister who have had protection around the clock. Are we forced to isolate our politicans? Is that the price we have to pay to keep our political elite safe from madmen and people not agreeing with their politics? I hope not but I wonder if we have a choice.
In the US all top-politicans are under heavy protection at all times and as far as I know there hasnt been any incidents since Reagan and before that it was Kennedy, both of which were occasions where protection didnt do much good. From what I have seen though so are the politicans in the US quite isolated from the citizens, I have never heard of cases where high politicans in the US go around and talk on streets and market places and where they walk the streets like normal men so to speak.

There seems to be no more "idyllic" places in the world no more...

 

You bring up some excellent points. We have not had serious violence against our politicians here in Canada, but we have had some people come up on the stage and hit our politicians with pies. Now, that sounds funny, but the big question that came up was "what if it's not a pie next time, what if it's a gun or a knife?" Penalties for the pie incedents have been severe, and many people feel that such harsh penalties for a prank are uncalled for. I'm not sure what to think. I hate my Premier, but as a symbol of my province I do not want him attacked or eliminated by violence. Is the answer increased security? More indoctrination into the political system so that divergent opinions are expressed properly? Maybe our politicians should be afraid? I just don't know.
Whatever the case, that poor woman who got attacked has my deepest sympathies.
BTW, pardon my North American ignorance, but what is EMU? European Monetary Unit?

 

Same here. Politicans walk around, take trams and trains, like anyone else, without bodyguards.

But 2 years ago, some whacko ran into the parliament of Zug with some rifles, starting to shoot around. But that wasn't political, "only" a shooting spree. Finishing off the tradition of moving freely in and out of parliament-sittings. Now they have to control people before going in and out.

And I would deeply regret, if politicans would have to start to walk around with bodyguards. It would take something away.

 

The EMU is the European Monetary Union, the euro basically.
The pie thing has happened here too, our minister of finance got a pie in the face a couple of years ago and it is somewhat of a trend during the last decade in Europe to pie big politicans, mostly those "representing" the establishment and "horrid" corporate interest.

 

EMU = European Monetary Union. Most well known part is the currency, the Euro.

Joacqin wrote

I agree, but that I think most people think the opposite. Initially most would think what you wrote, but after digging deeper and being confronted with politicians who have extreme views the majority would probably think you can justify killing some politicians.

A few examples:
- Even in recent history many states have assassinated or supported assassinations of politicians in other countries.

- You have probably been asked if you would kill Hitler before he came to power if you had the chance to go back in time or if you had lived at that time and knew what we know today.

Politicians are in danger. Ideas and opinions are dangerous to express. Someone might - and most likely will - object. Some people have a problem figuring out what is a reasonable response to different ideas and opinions. IMO part of the blame lies on all those who at some time or other applaud the killing of other people as just punishment. For example those who would kill Hitler in the question above. My thesis is that we would see fewer murders if the general acceptance of killing and death penalties was lower.

 

I don't know about Sweden. But any approachment to the EU is seen here by a part of the population with great suspicion. And debate about it gets very hot and emotional. Linking any involvment with the EU to treason. If the same polarized climate would exist in Sweden about the currency-change, then maybe someone has taken rhetoric too much to heart. But in the end, that is not a "death or life" question.

 

During the night it went from assault to murder/assassination. I am quite taken aback her.

 

From what I heard, she had a bodyguard, who however was not present at the shopping mall.
My condoleances to the swedish people. It saddens me to no end when politics turn into violence.

My question is: is the voting going to be postponed/canceled ? I just had a discussion about it here, and the dilemma is not trivial. If you postpone it, you just give a victory to whoever killed her, but voting now might imply an emotional wave of yes, therefore not mirroring what the population would have voted otherwise. Any thought about it ?

 

In Holland politicians never had much protection before the Pim Fortuyn assassination. I couldn't believe it when I heard Pim Fortuyn was shot, even though he had made many enemies in his short political career. A lot of people thought Fortuyn's ideas were bad, but I saw sense in some of his ideas. After the assassination other politicians feared for their lives as well, and some were even threatened for various reasons.

I always thought such a thing could never happen in Holland. Assassinating politicians is something for other countries.

 

She had bodyguards when the security police deemed it nescessary, which they didnt do at this occasion. The election will go through.
There are nothing that points that it should be politically motivated more than some madman got a gripe against her and stabbed her in a psychosis or something. Very little is known.

 

Yes well, she died around 8 hours ago.

It'll be interesting to see what the murderers motives were. It'll be even more interesting to see what type of punishment will be put on the criminal relative to his motives, when it's not a question of a regular person. I somehow doubt he'll get off with a few measly years.

 

I hope whoever did it gets a lifetime sentence. It's not just a matter of killing a person, it's an assault on democracy itself and should be punnished harshly.

 

Have they caught the perpetrator? My condolences as well to the Swedish people for the attack made on their democratic institutions.

 

Nope, whoever did it has no yet been caught. I really hope the police do a better job than at the Palme murder.....

 

I don't think they will catch him, they will screw it up just like with Palme. Never can the Swedish police force do any good.

 

I've heard something about Nazi's standing behind this horrible thing. Have you swedish heard about it over there?

 

No one knows, the nazis were very much against the EMU and Lindh was one of the front figures of those advocating an entrance into it. However I do not think so, the whole assault reeks of some paranoid schizophreniac or someone suffering from a psychosis. Even the most stupid sane person would have done a better and cleaner job of it.
This doesnt mean that they will catch the perpetrator though, the police seems to be a bunch of bumbling fools with no idea whatsoever about catching criminals.

On the part of punishment so will the murderer gets the same as any other murderer. 10-12 years in prison iirc if he is deemed as sane and psychiatric care if it is some lunatic.

 

How exactly does this disqualify some neo-nazi scumbag from being responsible? Paranoia and/or schizophrenia is more along the lines of a requirement for membership with those people. And you sure can't accuse any of them of being smart. Personally I think (and so does the Swedish police, last I heard) that this was politically motivated.

 

It's like that in Norway too. It surely freaks me out. How can they let a murderer away with only 12 years in prison? We surely have something to learn from the USA...

 

This is highly off-topic but I most certainly do not think so Daephon.

I never claimed that "my" lunatic couldnt be a nazi, my point was that it doesnt really matter "why" he did it but more what state he was in when he did it. Furthermore so does the police not think it is a political assassination. By that I mean that it was no grand conspiracy that wanted her gone. As the victim was a politician it most assuradly had to do with that. My point again is that many of us dislike people, some people may even hate certain politicians and the like, but it takes a certified madman to stab one in an store.