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Morals

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by The Magister, Mar 23, 2007.

  1. The Magister Gems: 26/31
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    When do you stop and think "thats not right"?

    Would you support someone who did something Ileagle for the right reasons?

    What would you do if you saw someone being mugged? Help them or ignore it?

    What is your view of right and wrong? Is there even such a thing?

    Discuss.
     
  2. Iku-Turso Gems: 26/31
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    Whenever I've been about to kill somebody in anger.

    Depends what the reasons were and who would come to harm and if there were other courses of action for the person to take, which I think there always is, you just need to find them and that can be so difficult that it might seem that the only option is the illegal one.

    Never actually saw any muggings, so I can't tell how I'd react...I'd probably call the police, shout as loudly as I could "Oi! What's going on around here", or ignore it. The most usual muggings around here are guys fighting after a night out, and the other one's buddies have come in for a helping hand and in those situations I'd probably just walk away.

    Ends and the intention to get to the ends justify the means, but not any means, for the results are determined by the means. Hate breeds hate until the cycle of hate ends, until people are sick of it, but that takes ages and a lot of death.

    The situation determines how much space you have for yourself to manouver, but your imagination is the only limit.
     
  3. Nataraja Gems: 12/31
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    I never stop and think 'thats not right'. Everything I do is good. I break the law regularly, but its just such a silly silly law to begin with. Other than that Im an outstanding citizen. I help people and care for others, regardless of if I know them or not. But theres just a few laws that I dont like, and so I have no problems breaking them since they dont hurt anyone...except sometimes I hurt my lungs...

    Id help anyone do anything illegal for the right reasons the same as Id stop anyone doing things that are legal for the wrong reasons.
     
  4. Carcaroth

    Carcaroth I call on the priests, saints and dancin' girls ★ SPS Account Holder

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    Generally, when someone is having something done to them that they don't want or being prevented from doing something that they do want. This is of course subject to numerous caveats about how said something effects other people and (to a lesser extent) themselves.

    Potentially. I wouldn't support a modern day "Robin Hood" though.

    I'd like to think I'd help - at the very least I'd call the police. Truth is, it would depend on the situation, who was with me, and whether I judged my action would actually have an influence.

    Do unto others as you would be done unto. Or alternatively, as Rally once put it, Don't do unto others as you wouldn't want to be done unto. Anything else is pretty much "wrong".

    Edit: Atrocious grammar

    [ March 26, 2007, 13:37: Message edited by: Carcaroth ]
     
  5. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    I suppose it always starts with an intuitive impulse that something needs to be thought about.

    If the problem were only with the legality of it, that is the action were not immoral, and the gravity of the problem justified the gravity of ifringement, then I would. For example, I would support a businessman hiring illegally an illegal alien with a starving family. I wouldn't support a father coaxing a daughter into prostitution to pay for a life-saving surgery in their family.

    Depends on the odds. Sometimes you can even the odds for the person and confront the bandits. Sometimes you will only get yourself mugged in addition and won't help anyone. Sometimes you can use the opportunity to take a photo or memorise their faces and phone the police or even get a cop from nearby, or basically get more people to come with you. Sometimes you can scream, "guys, hounds are coming!" and run, maybe they will also. There are many answers and the wrong one is, "I don't care."

    Yes, there are moral norms which bind everyone and in every situation, regardless of his belief or lack thereof in the norm. It's not a matter of agreement and it's not a matter of perception.
     
  6. Saber

    Saber A revolution without dancing is not worth having! Veteran

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    And yet I am pretty sure if you wrote a list of those and I wrote a list, there would be quite a few things on there that we would disagree about and both claim to not be open to discussion because they are not 'a matter of perception.'
     
  7. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Of course. We have a moral obligation to make sure that perception of ours is right. We can discuss if we understand this or that right. What we can't do is trying to make up our own rules by majority vote or other agreement and allow what is forbidden. For example, we could make a society without private property, but it's not right to steal just because someone doesn't believe in private property or that the owner deserves the particular items. We can't make such rules as that it's all fine to go around killing people even if we can, let's say, establish traffic laws.
     
  8. Late-Night Thinker Gems: 17/31
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    @ Nataraja

    So wait, are you saying that you illegally smoke plants declared endangered?
     
  9. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    My answers pretty much mirror Carcaroth's. The only thing I would add is to the mugging question, as that would be completely dependent upon the situation. If an old woman was being beat up by an averaged sized man, you're damn right I'd do something about it. If however, there were 10 men, all over 6 feet tall and hulking masses of humanity beating someone else up, then hell no, I wouldn't try and stop it. You've got to be aware of your own limitations, and entering such a situation with the intent of stopping the beating is NOT going to help that person at all. Yes, I'd call the police, but that's the most help I can give at that point.
     
  10. The Magister Gems: 26/31
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    Realy? Would you? People say they would do things like that, but chances are you are going to think that someone else is going to do something.

    An example is the case of Kitty Genovese:
    In 1964 Kitty was stabed to death outside her New York appartment. She strugled with her attacker for 35 minutes before he left he dead.
    Her cries for help and screems of pain woke 38 of her neighbours, who watched the entire event in horror. None of them called the police.
    When police asked why they did nothing to aid Kitty, they replied that they thought someone else was going to do something.
     
  11. Faraaz Gems: 26/31
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    Well...

    1) When I feel guilty about something I'm doing or participating in...

    2) Yes, but it depends on what it is...and there's a limit to the level of illegality I'm going to ignore. Ignoring copyright laws and downloading movies and games?? Ehh...okay I guess, but aiding and abetting a murderer?? Nope!

    3) I'd probably ignore it. Based on my experience in India, if someone's getting mugged, they're getting mugged by more than 1 person, and most likely they are armed and although I do feel bad for the other guy, I don't fancy getting stabbed or shot. So no...I'd just duck my head and walk/drive on...

    4) Yes, there is a right and wrong. Right is doing something you would like done to you. Wrong is something you wouldn't want done to you. There's any number of ways to put a spin on morality, but this is the litmus test. If you don't like it being done to you, you cannot justify it with disseminating mumbo jumbo.
     
  12. Montresor

    Montresor Mostly Harmless Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder

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    When it violates other people's rights to life, liberty and property.

    Yes. If a law prohibits something that is right, then it is the law, and not the act, that is immoral.

    Help them, if it is within my powers. Yell for help and/or call the police, otherwise.

    Unfortunately, I am not a strong man. Rushing into a situation where I would just get beaten up myself without helping the victim(s) is of no use to anyone. :(

    Always respect other people's property, including their lives and bodies. Or, as others have stated, "Don't do unto others what you don't want them to do unto you!"

    For example, as Andrew Galambos states in Sic Itur Ad Astra, your neighbor may like to party at 3 in the morning. But unless that also goes for you, you don't want your neighbors to wake you up at 3 o'clock and drag you to a party. Therefore, the old version "Do unto others as you would have them to unto you." doesn't go.
     
  13. NOG (No Other Gods)

    NOG (No Other Gods) Going to church doesn't make you a Christian

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    When I see something that I think is wrong. Sorry, but any more than that will require specific circumstances.

    That depends. The early christians worshipped illegally, and I'd obviously support that. Christians still do in many parts of th world. Other things are more questionable. Is there a legal alternative? What are the risks to others? Will you accept whatever consequences come to you because of this?

    Oh, help. Definitely help. Especially if I could catch the mugger by suprise.

    Yes, and it is largely defined by the Bible. Of course, the Bible doesn't cover all situations, which is why we can pray to God and the like. But yes, there is a definite right and wrong.
     
  14. Sarevok• Gems: 23/31
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    Depends, but I would normally ignore it. Anyway, muggings don't normally last long, so I wouldn't have much of an opportunity to help. The only people who would have a problem and be in need of assistance are those who refuse the mugger, and if they are stupid enough to put their life in danger for the sake of some material crap on their person, let them be beaten.
     
  15. NOG (No Other Gods)

    NOG (No Other Gods) Going to church doesn't make you a Christian

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    Actually, statistically speaking, you're more likely to be killed if you don't fight back.
     
  16. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Some situations which appear suicidal are actually life-savers. My brother escaped trouble with three guys by striking the boss with a hidden ugly stick. He fell on the ground and the rest ran.
     
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