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Monster AC & THAC0 list?

Discussion in 'BG2: Shadows of Amn (Classic)' started by Sir Rechet, Aug 30, 2004.

  1. Sir Rechet

    Sir Rechet I speak maths and logic, not stupid Veteran

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    What would be a good estimate on monster AC and THAC0 in early, mid and late game?

    I'm trying to do a bit of maths to see if there's any actual use for those extremely low THAC0's that warriors get. Getting to -10 THAC0 (with all bonuses to hit) sure is nice, but not really needed if you aren't fighting enemies with -10 AC (or better) in a regular basis. This has most effect on when deciding on if you want to dual/multiclass or go with a pure class warrior.

    On the other hand, knowing a ballpark estimate on enemy THAC0 would help deciding on what AC is 'enough'. The smaller, the better, naturally, but is obtaining better AC worth sacrificing other stuff? Most notably, is it 'safe' enough to drop a shield and go with 2H weapons or dual-wield? Or, even worse, is it 'safe' enough even if you *do* use a shield?
     
  2. Mayfairy Gems: 8/31
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    You could turn on dice rolls from the options to see how much you need to hit them and vice versa.
     
  3. Sir Rechet

    Sir Rechet I speak maths and logic, not stupid Veteran

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    Yes, but that would just tell me the facts AFTER I've had to make those decisions, right? :p

    I suppose readers of this particular board aren't very familiar with the JUPP guide I wrote for Icewind Dale 2? (Jukka's Ultimate Powergaming Party, available here at Sorcerer's) The whole idea was based on getting one or two characters to insane AC levels to tackle the game's "Heart of Fury" difficulty level with relative ease. But it's based on the fact that there's plenty of melee combat and monsters in IWD2, and less spell casters.

    Getting to AC -62 (corresponds AC 72 in 3rd Ed. rules) surely ain't possible in SoA, not even ToB, but neither do monsters have THAC0s in the -40 range, right?

    I've heard that Firkraag has THAC0 -12, but he's an exception, not the rule. Liches, beholders, illithids and their ilk aren't exactly dangerous because of their THAC0, but their spells - an area where AC has no meaning whatsoever.

    But nevertheless, I'd like to know if AC -5 is 'enough' or should I really strive for -15?
     
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    I'd say you need more than -5. I've played through the game like 7 times or something, and I take care of my fighters. I'd say you could manage at -8 if you have more than one tank. I think saving throws are more important than ac, as the only really evil fighters are like, backstabbers, dragons and the demon warriors in the Underdark.
     
  6. Sir Rechet

    Sir Rechet I speak maths and logic, not stupid Veteran

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    Thanks for the link! Exactly what I needed!

    Those lovely Iron & Adamantite golems have THAC0 of three, but since they have STR 24, I'm assuming a THAC0 of -3. (Or does listed THAC0 already include strength bonuses?) Can you spell ouch?

    Most of the monsters I checked (vampires, minotaurs and other 'medium' threats) seemed to have THAC0 ratings between five and ten. That'd also explain why Jaheira gets hit pretty seldom with her -7 AC she has now.. Lookin' good so far.

    By the way.. No wonder it takes ages to bring down one of those Adamantites. They have 90% resistance to all physical forms of damage, so their listed "80" hit points become 800 in reality..
     
  7. Shrikant

    Shrikant Swords! Not words! Veteran

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    You do know the Golem cheese dont you.

    There is a priest spell which SETS the strength of the target at 18/75. Since its a 'white' spell, i.e. supposedly helpful, it cant be resisted.
    Specially useful in Nalia's keep which I attempt very early.

    THACO from strength is to be added to that figure of +3.

    Edit: Spelling.
     
  8. Sir Rechet

    Sir Rechet I speak maths and logic, not stupid Veteran

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    Grr, you guys are EVIL when it comes to using bugs and loopholes. :p

    I'm only good at playing evil in the role-playing sense..
     
  9. Tronak el Karbaro Gems: 6/31
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    All the info you need is in the Ad&d 2nd Edition player's handbook.
     
  10. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    Well, to get back to your original question - it doesn't matter at a certain point. I've done the math on both SoA and ToB, and generally what you're saying is true - once your warriors get down to a THAC0 of -10 they're hitting on practically every swing. In fact, most of the the time they actually have to roll a "1" for a critical miss to not get a hit. Even if you consider the expansion, there's not more than a couple of monsters with ACs that dip to the point where you could actually miss with anything but a critical miss. Remember, with a THAC0 of -10, you are actually going to have to run into something with an AC of -13 to need a roll in excess of 2 to hit.

    However, I would say that the opposite is true regarding your own AC. I routinely have my fighters around -10 AC and they still get hit quite frequently by the tougher monsters. If you ever play the expansion, you'll find that -10 isn't nearly enough, and you'll get hit quite regularly with that AC.
     
  11. Sir Rechet

    Sir Rechet I speak maths and logic, not stupid Veteran

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    I did some calculations and came up with a rather interesting result.

    Try guessing which weapon setup is better for Keldorn if he's wearing Girdle of Hill Giant Strength? (No Haste or any extra THAC0 bonuses)

    A) Carsomyr with 2* in two-handed style
    B) Dinky plain longsword +3 in main hand and longsword +2 in off-hand with 2* in dual-wielding.

    It turns out that the longswords outdamage even the mother of all weapons, a.k.a Carsomyr, as long as the enemy doesn't have AC much below zero! Add some +toHit items/spells and some level-ups, and enemy AC matters even less.

    However, I'd still keep that Carsomyr.. it's other properties make it a definitive keeper, even if it can be outdamaged by lesser weapons and dual-wielding. Just pointing out how (over)powerful dual-wielding actually is.
     
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