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Jon Irenicus

Discussion in 'BG2: Throne of Bhaal (Classic)' started by Sir Farivald, Dec 6, 2005.

  1. Sir Farivald

    Sir Farivald The Obsidian Cleric

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    POSSIBLE SPOILERS HERE


    So does anyone else feel sorry for him? :p I do. I guess I'm just too compassionate for my own good, but thinking about his situation I can't help but pity the guy. Plus the way he met his end was a tad harsh, all those little shadow demons pouncing on him. Heh, no wonder I can't play through the game as an evil character successfully...
     
  2. kuemper Gems: 31/31
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    Nope. Jon did it to himself. He decided being an elf wasn't enough of a lifespan for him and wanted godhood by bleeding the Tree of Life. His punishment of banishment and a human's average lifespan fit the crime. He didn't care who he hurt, including his supposed life-love Elliseme, to get that extension.

    I'd like immortality, too, but by hurting (eventually killing) my husband and daughter? :shake: :toofar:

    As for those demons that get him, I like to think of them as kobolds. Yip, yip, yip! :lol:
     
  3. Felinoid

    Felinoid Who did the what now? ★ SPS Account Holder

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    I don't feel bad for him, but I do pity him. Just as I would pity any megalomaniacal putz who dared to mess with me. He may have had bad breaks, but they were caused by his bad deeds. He was on top of the world, a powerful wizard and the consort (maybe husband) of Queen Ellesime, and that wasn't good enough for him. His magic failing against those devils was the perfect irony and personal hell, IMHO.

    I also wonder at why Ellesime thought he could possibly reform without his soul, but that's her brainfart. She should have just killed the jerk.
     
  4. Sir Farivald

    Sir Farivald The Obsidian Cleric

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    I was under the impression that she and he split before he went mental... perhaps I am mistaken.
     
  5. Ziad

    Ziad I speak in rebuses Veteran

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    I don't think they ever split. Which is probably the reason she did not "kill the jerk" as Fel put so diplomatically ;)

    I like Irenicus. He's one of the few non-traditional bad guys in computer games, especially compared to other IE bad guys: Sarevok and Belhifet don't exactly drip originality when they talk. Besides, I *hate* Evil Bad Guys who so conveniently spill their Evil Schemes to the hero, just to make sure he manages to foil them. Jon says at one point (in Spellhold I think): "You'll get no villain's exposition from me!" :lol:

    And besides David Warner did a fantastic job with the voice acting.
     
  6. Western Paladin Gems: 10/31
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    As a villain I like Sarevok better than Irenicus. Maybe I'm biased because Sarevok eventually becomes a joinable NPC (and the best fighter EVAR), but Irenicus really rubs me the wrong way.


    Edit: I also don't think Irenicus' schemes were as impressive as some do.
     
  7. 8people

    8people 8 is just another way of looking at infinite ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    [​IMG] Jon Irenicus...

    First enemy I hated so fully that I was ecstatic when I killed him first time :evil:

    Even my good characters appear to like defeating him once and for all :innocent:

    Though, I felt a little sorry for him sometimes. But I don't think he could be redeemed, he'd gone too far and was too cold to want it.
     
  8. Fly2tHeSkY

    Fly2tHeSkY Southern Comfort Veteran

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    Irenicus was good, but Sarevok was clearly better. Always was and always will be, but that's just my opinion! :D

    But because of what Jon did, take on the path of evil by studying the dark arts was very nice. Yes, Ellesime banished him and his sister, but we all know she still wanted him BAD!!!

    His immortality plan was pretty good as well, especially as he worked his way around and doing whatever he wished ... i like that!

    His death was coming though and we all knew that! But hey, anyone who kills that many Shadow Thieves deserves to die!!!
     
  9. Koki Gems: 5/31
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    Let's start with the fact that I generally hate elves. You can imagine how offended I was when it turned out that they turn elves into humans as capital punishment. If only that hag, Ellesime, showed up and didn't talk, I'd slice her throat all the same. And everyone in Qintara for that matter. Oh wait, I did slaughter Qintara, but that was Arcanum. I can't remember how that city of elves was called in BG2... Saradush? Slaanesh? Crap. No matter, you get the idea.
    As for Jon himself, well, he was generally annoying through whole game. Nobody likes being a guinea pig, but what really sets me off is his boasting. Boo, I'm so much better than you, boo, you will die, boo, you lowife worm. Why there's no "Shut up and fight!" dialogue option... all in all, let him rot in hell. Literally.
     
  10. Sir Farivald

    Sir Farivald The Obsidian Cleric

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    So all in all: I'm too compassionate for my own good? :D
     
  11. starwalker Gems: 16/31
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    Yes. Now we nerds must sit you down and force you to play Doom until we wear it down some.

    Heh I don't feel sorry for Jon and he doesn't reveal everything until the end sure. But the bastard does go into his "Diatribe of my evil scheme" there in the talk with Ellisame. The only one I don't remember really doing this really was Sarevok. But by the time you face Sarevok even once really you already know his whole plan. You've read his diary. You've talked to others. You've uncovered so many pieces. All he had was his little religious "I will be a God!" speach and then you've got a heck of a fight on your hands.

    Irenicus had everything and couldn't stomache that he wasn't a god and decided to basically destroy his people to attain it. Get's punished in what in some ways is a "worse than death" fashion. The rest of it he spends on attempting petty revenge and the same stupid plan all over again. The game is fun but that's because I get to play in it and there is so much more than just the chase after Irenicus going on. If I had to watch it I'd consider it kind of a bad movie plot so I tend to considering his ending justly Ironic that he dies to a pack of lowly little demons.
     
  12. Sir Farivald

    Sir Farivald The Obsidian Cleric

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    Touché, I suppose. Perhaps I share his Godform-desiring tendencies or something :mommy:
     
  13. Iku-Turso Gems: 26/31
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    As bad guys go, I really like Irenicus as an opponent. The other ones, even Melyssan are more brawn than brains. To manipulate the 5 (or was it 6) is no biggie, since they're so low-brow.

    Irenicus on the other hand isn't much of a fighter. For some reason I manage to beat him in fights in a matter of seconds. Might be that the time you get to him, you're packing heat and ready to explode...

    So as an adversary in combat, he's lousy. But as an mastermind, however debilitating his flaws are, he's one of the best in crpg's. And I love his voice, yes I do...That arrogance! Don't you just love to hate it?

    That in mind, it's a real shame the way he goes...hate to see a meticulous plan to go to waste...and the planner as well...especially if your character's a no-brainer, who just stumbles her way through obstacles.
     
  14. Elwithral Irenicus Gems: 20/31
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    I love his spells...

    The ones that kill things instantly...

    I just happened to find them in Shadowkeeper as well.. under the name Flashy Death 01-4! :D

    My uber characters also love those spells. ;)
     
  15. Silverstar Gems: 31/31
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    Yes I really appreciate Irenicus, he is a very good villain character, you can hate, envy, even admire him! My friend found him soo cool in the opening scene that he re-started his game countless times only to listen his speech and torture:
    'Ah, the child of Bhaal has awaken...' and so it goes... :roll:

    On the other hand, he is to powerful in cut-scenes and too weak in unmodded game. He kills people with ease, has improved alacrity and can even release two spells at once (he disintegrated two elves at the same time when they were captured by Matron mother) In the game, he is just anothr high level spell caster whose only speciality is that he is immune to some things like Silence, and he has some resistances maybe but that is all. And that final showdown is a one big dissapointment, Irenicus is a power with his spells, if he turns into an ugly creature who can only try to claw at you he is pathetic. And his demonic goons are not that terrifying. I feel sorry for him, yes, as he is weak for a final boss. :(

    BUT, if you have Improved Irenicus battle, he is C-O-O-L! He has infinite spells, permanent IA, wears Robe of Vecna, Amulet of Power, and has very good spell selections and smart scripts, and many special and devastating powers! Plus last fight in Hell is hard as Hell! :D With all his TOUGH friends, three-round with no save between concept, and Irenicus VS PC alone..These are cool, maybe a bit unbalanced in the favor of Irencius, but hey, he is Jon Irenicus, he must be tough and terrifying, I do not think an experienced player will think or feel scared when he faces normal Irenicus battle, however with Improved Irenicus one must always worry for his soul and life! Try it in Tactics mod!

    *Why yes I am a walking, talking mod-advertisement!*
     
  16. starwalker Gems: 16/31
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    In the cutscene with killing the elves in the underdark he doesn't kill them both at once. He kills them one after another. Permanent improved alacrity style and in quick order.

    I wouldn't be surprised if this is just where they got the idea to give him such spell speed enhancing items as well as permanent improved alacrity in his improved version.

    And he does cast spells in his Slayer form in the unmodded version. He's just not very quick about it. You'd have to ask one of the guys that knows how to check but he also seems to be immune to it taking him over and ending things after a certain ammount of time.

    I'd love to hear if the tactics mod actually makes him smarter about this stuff or if it's one of those that just throws more monsters at you in the name of overwhelming combat.
     
  17. Silverstar Gems: 31/31
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    Well, AFAIK, he casted one spell in that cutscene, and two green balls (disintegrate rays) came out of him, hit the two elves at the same time, and reduced them to dust at the very same moment; he casted a special disintegrate which targets two victims me thinks I am %99,9 sure of it, but if anyone can check and confirm this we will appreciate it. :) Oh and for some reason his spells in the cutscenes can never be resisted, I noticed that in his first battle with Shadowthieves in Promanade, one lucky thief made a save vs spell against JonBon's Flesh to Stone but was petrified nevertheless. Ofcourse, he casts uber-cheesy versions of spells, which can be found in SK, it says for example:Cut-Scene Flesh to Stone, ignore resistance.

    Anyway, Improved JonBon battle adds some nasty new monsters, the very sins came back to life, you will fight Orb of FEAR, (an elder orb with CON draining beams and buffs) Wraith of WRATH (Wraith Sarevok, with -25 AC, immune to ALL magic as per Prot. From Magic scroll, drains STR), Sword of GREED, (A nasty Mordenkainen sword&BlackRazor mutant) and Dragon of PRIDE(A buffed to the max shadow dragon with lvl draining breath) plus SELFISH Irenicus(whom I mentioned above) I believe the concept is cool, sure it is 'hard' but at least satisfying!

    And after that battle Irenicus comes back, paralyzes NPCs and takes all of your items away, and you must fight a Slayer Irencius with bare yourself ONLY! Turn into Slayer and hack him! Or you can get your items if you are quick enough to evade Slayer Irenicus.

    Final showdown, Irenicus himself, no more tricks, or summons, only him, buffed up to the max, with practically every protection spell in the game, plus imp. invisibility and SI:Divination and Abjuration. He then casts a sequence of spells, Symbols, Horrid Wİltings, Flame Arrows, Time Stop, Greater Malison, Chaos, Cone of Cold etc. He continously re-casts PfromMagic weapons and you can NOT touch him, it is like a joke! You can not target him via spells, thanks to his un-dispellable invisibility, you can not breach/dispel him, he dimension doors a lot too! If you can hurt him a little, (which is very unlikely) he dimesion doors to safety and casts Cure Critical Wounds on himself repeatedly to fully heal himself and get back to killling (N)PCs. :D Oh and if he thinks his spells are useless (if he fights %90 MR skeleton warriors) he casts 'SHATTER MAGIC' which dispels every protection and removes MR, and then gets back to killing. He is smart, powerful, and COOL! Try it and see!

    I like Irenicus this way and want to remember him as a powerful, smart and feared opponent, not some minor weakling to be pitied on! :nono:

    PS:For right tactics to beat Big JonBon, just ask me, I beat him on insane! (though just barely!)
     
  18. starwalker Gems: 16/31
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    He has two affects of the sparkly "I'm casting magic" affect. One before the first ball. One before the second ball. If it's all one spell that's not how the animation makes it look. But maybe someone will give us something definitive.
     
  19. shadow lurker Gems: 17/31
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    Nope, I don't feel sorry for him at ALL. I really hate his voice -it's so annoying. And I don't like the fact that you can't skip the intro at the beginning where he casts all these spells on your character and hoe he always yaks on and on and on and on and on...You get the point. :D
     
  20. The Gatekeeper Gems: 5/31
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    Jon is one of my all-time favorite villians (the minute i met him i knew it was gonna be a good game) and is a character that will be impersonated over and over again in the future i think. He is a very original creation and I want to play those improved irenicus mods, never bothered but it sounds like fun to me!
     
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