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Irish law against abortion run amok?

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Beren, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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  2. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Veteran

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  3. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    This is exactly what I would expect when government regulates abortion. When the law dictates medical or personal issues the ability to use common sense goes right out the window.
     
  4. damedog Gems: 15/31
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    I'm against abortion myself after learning more facts about it, but this is just dumb. No abortions even when the life of the mother is at stake? That was bound to backfire at some point. People shouldn't be engaging in risky behavior if they're not prepared for the consequences.
     
  5. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Veteran

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    What did you learn?
     
  6. Nykidemus Gems: 2/31
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    I'm not really sure what you mean by that in this situation.
     
  7. damedog Gems: 15/31
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    Sorry, not in this situation, just in general. This woman should absolutely have been allowed to have one. That's just common sense imo.
     
  8. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    And why should an abortion be excluded from one of those "consequences"? It seems strange to me that we would prevent a woman from aborting an unwanted pregnancy when we won't castrate a rapist or dead-beat dad.
     
  9. Darion

    Darion Resident Dissident Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Abortion laws back and forth...this one was simply a bad call on the doctors side.

    If you put ideology before pronciple....you'll end up hurting or killing those in need.
     
  10. damedog Gems: 15/31
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    I wouldn't mind castrating a rapist, especially if they were likely to do it again. But an abortion has way worse consequences, both for the women with higher rates of depression and other mental illnesses and the moral issues concerning abortion itself, than simply, say, taking birth control in the first place if you don't want a child. The vast majority of reasons abortions are done is because the mother doesn't want it to affect their life. Naturally there are exceptions, but what I find strange is that personal freedom would come before the right to life of another.
     
  11. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    You may want to really question your source there damedog. The majority of women I know who have had abortions were on birth control -- very few, statistically speaking, use abortion as a substitute for birth control. The only places I've seen such accusations is in the anti-choice crowd propaganda (which is not very accurate).
     
  12. Rotku

    Rotku I believe I can fly Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    And even if that were the case, surely allowing people to make informed choice makes a lot of sense? Oh wait, there's that whole "moral issues", isn't there? That's what it comes down to in the end - we think our morals are right, and yours are wrong, so screw your choice. How could I forget.
     
  13. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

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    That seems rather dismissive of his position, Rotku, which I think we should assume is rational and not dogmatic until and unless he shows otherwise. IMO, his concern for the life of another is inherently much more complex than simple morality bullying - which btw is not exclusive to pro-lifers. e.g., "we think our morals are right, and yours are wrong, so screw the life of an unborn child."
     
  14. damedog Gems: 15/31
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    My source is the Guttmacher institute, which is affiliated with planned parenthood. so if there is any propaganda, it is on the pro-abortion side. That depends on what you define as using abortion as a substitute for birth control, though that wasn't what I was saying in the first place. Only half were on some form of contraceptive when they became pregnant, and the motivations speak for themselves:

    "The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman’s education, work
    or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby now (73%); and that she did not want to be a
    single mother or was having relationship problems (48%). Nearly four in 10 women said they had completed their
    childbearing, and almost one-third were not ready to have a child. Fewer than 1% said their parents’ or partners’
    desire for them to have an abortion was the most important reason."

    My definition of freedom is doing what you want as long as it doesn't harm anyone else, your human rights end where another's begin. It is unacceptable to me that the life of a child is terminated, which was created through the decisions made by the mother, because they don't want to care for it or have it inconvenience their life. That is not a valid reason to deny another developing human the right to existence, imo.
     
  15. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    By that logic, all mothers should also be forced to deliver horribly deformed, disfigured or otherwise abnormal children - while it's common practice that the mothers are given the choice to terminate such unfortunate pregnancies. I don't believe anybody should be forced to take care of defective offspring for the rest of their lives, likely resulting in mostly misery for both the child and the parents for the rest of their lives. Simply put, nobody should be allowed to make such a choice for someone else. Most people aren't cut out for it either, and it's common for the fathers to leave mothers who decide to keep such children despite the fathers not wanting to. We've had a number of widely publicized cases of that here. Who benefits from that in the end? The mothers effectively have to become full-time sole caretakers of such children for the rest of their lives. I realize how a mother would easily make such a decision on an emotional level while being pregnant, but once reality of the situation sets in and rationality kicks in, I doubt half of them would still feel the same way as initially.
     
  16. Silvery

    Silvery I won't pretend to be your friend coz I'm just not ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    Awesome, someone with a piece of paper knows more about how women feel in this situation than the woman herself...seriously damedog, that line about depression is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard and I KNOW what I'm talking about
     
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