In Denial About Peace in the Middle East

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Denial is a devious foe. It caters to many agendas, luring us into harmful decisions, blinding us with visions of success and peace.
Can we hope for an peace agreement with Arab terrorists, is that realistic, or impossible? We must be brutally honest when weighing both sides, and accept only what reason dictates, regardless of our dreams being crushed. Dreams are for those asleep. I am awake, are you?
Denial is our own demon. A demon which we must not run from, but approach head-on, and approach it now. Dreaming of peace will not replace your child violently killed by ruthless, homicidal, Arab bombers. There is no such people called "Palestinians". They are Arabs, and that must be understood clearly.
What causes the numerous and terminally wasteful talks to continue between the Arabs and Israel? I believe there is a conflict in us which stems from two fatal errors; 1) An Arab child cannot become a homicide bomber, 2) Adult bombers can repent. These two tragic mistakes are literally killing us. With some people, there can never be a light at the end of the tunnel. A people who encourage their children to kill themselves and others; a people who kill their own, dragging their bodies in the street; and a people who killed a 5 year old Danielle Shefi, are not human, and cannot be treated as human, nor may their "talks" be trusted.
In His Torah, God commands man to wipe out a city of idolatry, a people who harm only themselves. We are also commanded by God to wipe out the murderous Amalekites. God Himself destroyed Sodom. He wiped out the world with a flood. In all these cases, children were not spared. Ask yourselves, "Is God right or wrong by condemning children?" There is one answer: God created morality, so it is ludicrous for man to oppose God. King Solomon taught, (Ecclesiastes, 5:1) "Don't be excited (with) your mouth, and do not hasten to bring forth words before God, for God is heaven and you are on Earth, therefore let your words be few". If you are sympathetic to these children, realize that these child terrorists would not be sympathetic to your children, not even to a carriage-bound infant. They would proudly blow themselves up along with your son and daughter.
Choose who you want to live, and who to die. Israel, you have the ability and the power to correct the problem. Right now, your inactivity translates into murder. You have one decision; follow God's morality or die and be killed through passivity. God has tremendous resources, if you would admit His presence and ability. If only you would not concede to other influences, but admit His laws as absolute truths, as righteous, as the singular morality.
You still think talking will help? Didn't President Bush stop talking to Iraq at a certain point? Well, we have far passed that point with Arafat's followers and Hamas.
What is the obstacle? Most human beings cannot synthesize "child" with "suicide bomber" or "martyr". This conflict stems from something deeper, something more personal. I refer to a specific self image we all have, as a "caretaker for children". We enjoy this self image, and who can deny this sentiment? Not one of us. We all equate children with innocence - those who require our love and defense. What then happens is this; our guilt emerges as we consider a Arab child as a suicide bomber. This guilt causes us to reject that thought, and replace it with a nonsensical notion that there is potential good in these children. Time and time again, we return to "talks". The correct response is, "There isn't good in these children". The proof? The adults who kill children like Danielle Shefi used to be children themselves. Their corrupt society and corrupt religious philosophy trains and traps their Arab youth in this path of violence. More proof? Many Arab teenagers blow themselves up. Our rejection of branding adults and children as murderers attributed to the reluctance of European Jews of leaving when they could, and they paid the price.
The Arab Muslim culture is not being changed. It will continue its downward spiral as a people favoring ruthless terrorism, and the obliteration of life. These deviant and cruel animals drench nails in rat-poison, that tear through human limbs, hurled with explosives so powerful that heads are ripped off bodies. The Arabs will continue to parade as more American skyscrapers plunge downward, crushing and burning to death every innocent worker, with no chance to escape and to say goodbye to their loved ones. Their families weep for their loss, for the unimaginable pain suffered, while Arabs burn flags and celebrate victory over our destruction.
I understand. Entertaining this reality alarms you. You are suddenly faced with a comparison between these violent Arab children, and your own. You ask yourself, "Can my own kids commit such atrocities?" Upon answering a very definite "No", you then find it difficult to accept that ANY child is capable of such acts. But I warn you, you must set aside your sensitivity for "children" in general. This sensitivity causes you to deny that Hamas and Arabs are killers. For decades, this nation brainwashed its youth to live for murder. They live that way. We die that way.
It is so revolting when I hear a foolish reporter equate Israeli defense - (which never targets civilians, certainly not children) - to Arabs who uncork the champagne when a baby has been shot at point blank range. Danielle Shefi, you did not die in vain. You are remembered, and you serve to teach our blind leaders that time has come to defend life a any cost.
These trained Arabs are not going away. This must not be denied. We cannot talk to them. Such talk will never result in changing their evil schemes. They have not changed - they will not change.
Their offspring are now as vicious as their parents. Even if a minority of Arabs oppose Arafat's induction of children into the ranks of his cowardly army, we cannot maintain relations with a people who contain any remnant of terror, and certainly not with the Arabs, who breed this philosophy en masse. We must accept this fact and face reality. Complete avoidance with killers and liars must be our first priority. This nation must be dismantled and destroyed.
It is beyond me how President Bush will never entertain peace talks with bin-Laden, but simultaneously does so with Arabs. Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas declared he will not use force against Hamas. So why is Bush still talking to him? Abbas must be condemned and treated as a terrorist according to President Bush's own terms, that one who harbors terrorists is equal to the terrorist. As long as Abbas 1) will not use force against Hamas, and 2) allows even one Hamas member to live under Abbas' controlled areas, Abbas is equal to Hamas, and the U.S. and Israel must treat him accordingly. This is President Bush's own words, "I've said in the past that nations are either with us or against us in the war on terror."
Not demanding Abbas use force against Hamas is a clear denial. It will cause more deaths. I appeal to the President to be guided by our knowledge of human nature - not political concerns. Life must never gain 'bargaining chip' status. As long as anyone entertains discussions of peace with a people preaching martyrdom as a basic tenet, our end will be more deaths.
Requesting Arafat denounce terror was also a grave mistake, as a Rabbi put it, "...you thereby condone Arafat's words, by requesting them." Back then, Bush's request rendered Arafat a realistic partner for peace - his words as possibly reflecting truth. Again a denial. True, Bush subsequently recognized Arafat lies. But when will he recognize Arafat's successor Abbas as no better? Again, Abbas said he will not use force against Hamas. We must not recoil from identifying someone as he is. Abbas said in other words, "I am not committed to the removal of terror. I will not use all my power to fight Hamas." The truth must be embraced if we are to make headway. Denial derails.
Statements like "...the recent agreement between the PA and Israel looks promising" are denials of a clear and present danger: Arafat's Arab population of children, teenagers and adults, trained for decades to kill Jews, simply do not suddenly embrace peace. We have seen enough emailed film clips of kindergarten PA classes teaching violence. We have heard enough on PA radio urging increased bombings. And we have read enough of Arafat's signatures ordering deadly weapons, and suicide brigades on Jews. By denying these facts, we endanger ourselves, and delay a real plan which can have the hopes of shielding us from terror.
The real facts we must face:
1) Arafat is a killer.
2) Arafat is not in control, and neither is Abbas. Their drive for "peace" is not for itself, but only until they receive a land.
3) Arafat's Arab society will continue to teach terrorism. For years, Arafat's Arab children and teens have been trained to kill Jews. These children will soon become, what their parents are now - homicidal bombers. This will not change.
4) These thousands of killers don't vanish and they will be killing for decades to come, if we allow them.
5) Proximity to a terrorist nation is fatally foolish.
6) Israel never was, nor ever will be, home to "Palestinians." Arafat's claims to Israel are baseless, and contradict history.
7) American and foreign reporters of baseless anti-Semitic blood, intend to rewrite history with words such as "occupation".
Anyone who still wants to talk to Arafat's Arab killers denies these facts, and kills Jews.
Stop the denial. Stop the talks.
What must happen:
A. Arafat must be tried and punished for murder according to both American and Israeli law. This is consistent with what the U.S would have done to bin-Laden, if caught.
B. Measures for distancing the Arafat's Arabs from their target Israel, must commence immediately.
C. The U.S. must stop tying Sharon's hands
D. We must not compromise Israeli life for any concern.
E. All news people must cease interviews with Arafat, as this condones his words as legitimate, enabling him to shed his proven, murderous skin. Reporters should have world history as mandatory reading.
F. Abbas must be condemned and treated as a terrorist according to President Bush's own terms, that one who harbors terrorists is equal to the terrorist. As long as Abbas 1) will not use force against Hamas, and 2) allows even one member to live in Palestinian controlled areas, Abbas is equal to Hamas, and the U.S. and Israel must treat him accordingly.
History disproves all "Palestinian" claims to Israel. The reality is they are Arabs, there are no "Palestinians". It is not our responsibility, nor is it safe to have the Arab terrorists next door. Instead, Arab terrorist people must be dismantled and destroyed, before even one more innocent American or Jewish civilian is butchered.
Further talk will kill more people. Arab terrorists cannot be partners in peace. They do not want peace. Dismantle and destroy the Arab population targeting Jews. Do it now.

From "Facing Reality"
By Rabbi Moshe Ben-Chaim

[ September 18, 2003, 19:07: Message edited by: Blackthorne TA ]

 

There is a proverb:

"Violence leads to Counterviolence."

Is it really wise to try and kill or drive out all arabs in the occupied territories who are against Israel? Which will mean to drive out or kill all of them. (And Westbank and Gaza Strip are occupied. Do not deny this!)

Before Arafat started his second Intifada in 2000 (to which Sharon delivered a very convenient cause), Hamas and Islamic Djihad were meaningless organisations who were desperatly searching for possibilities of PR. To this time, it was very unpopular for terrorists to kill israelis, because retributions from the IDF always hit civilians.

On the other hand the author is right in his claim that Arafat should step down from his post. He is responsible for the second Intifada (which was long prepared) and initially for the flood of suicide bombings. But if removed by Israel he will not loose influence on palestenian policy.

As for Abbas: That matter is finished. He had never the chance to fight against the terrorists, because he never had the ressources.

EDIT: Well, Elios, you shocked me. I'm glad that you did not write this.

[ September 19, 2003, 12:16: Message edited by: Fabius Maximus ]

 

I hope I totally misunderstood your post Elios, but here it goes:

They are, you are just in denial.

Probably, but God did not create my moral.

Oh really? Well if that argument goes, I would like to have Nieuw Amsterdam back.

Edit:

Well if God is creating hell on earth, what is he doing in heaven?

[ September 17, 2003, 16:43: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

 

I dont know if I should weep or laugh. When I read a post such as yours Elios I am no longer surprised that we have so much pain and suffering in this world. Exchange jews for arabs and arabs for jews in that post and you have exactly the rhetoric that convinces young arabs to blow themselves up with anyone who happens to be nearby.

It is people that believe in things like what you posted here Elios that are the root off all conflicts in this world, are you truly one of them?

 

Although i cannot deny the fact that the Palestinians have their share of wrong decisions you are really so misleaded that i can't even think what kind of misinformation you had to write this.
Some points i do really disagree with you (there are more but we have time)

They don't encourage anyone, the suicide bombers have reached the bottom of the well and they can't stand anymore this situation and they see this as the only solution to have at least an honourable death. Because this is the way they see it even if you or me don't see it this way. And please are you telling me that Israel soldiers have never killed kids? They have done it many times and they will do it again i bet on it.

Palestinians are a mix of people that came from the various conquerors of the lands of Israel or better yet the Kingdom of Jerusalem as you may know. They are not entirely Arabs since they also have European blood in them.

Do you know he destroyed Sodom and Gomorra? Because they were deep sinners not because they were worshipping an idol. And he did spare Lot and his friend and their families

I suggest you read the Quran. I believe you will find out that there is a different philosophy in there.

If my nation was under the boot of some who thinks that because he grabbed a place in this land he can f**** me, then i expect me and my children to fight back with every mean possible.

They are but also Israellis are killers too.

No they always are the collateral damage as your administration would say. Because in every attack Israel made in order to kill a Hamas member or any organizations member civilians died too.

You are forgeting one crucial factor. Palestinians were there before Israel was founded. And if your first statement is a true one then Greece is demanding back Constantinopole, Asia minor (at least the shores), the area of Trapezounta where there was the territory of Pontos, Marseile, Sicily, South Italia.
I find it very disturbing that you, who i presume are a Jew, have already forgotten what happened in WW II and try to repeat history again but this time having Jews in place of Nazis. I feel very sorry and i would ask you to think again what you said and what you think of the Palestinians (you think they are not humans, they are animals if i understood you correctly) and tell me then after you have done some pretty heavy thinking if your words are doing any good to this situation or to the way someone would think of you.
BTW there are more points i disagree with you but i don't want to say more. I feel very sad i've read these from you, because i had greater expectations from you maybe

 

A number of you are stating things in the generalities. A very large number (the vast majority, actually) have no problem with the Jews and vice versa. It's a comparatively small number of fanatics on each side that insist on conducting the attacks against innocent people.

As would their activity, as the terrorists become more determined to fight on and continue their attempt to eradicate the Jews.

Culture? What the hell? The Islamic culture is one of peace, it's just a few obsessive people that ruin the reputation of the rest.

A millenia of habitation contradicts history? What was Israel prior to 1945? Palestine.

There is a word: 'Martyrdom'. That's exactly what will happen if Israel forcibly removes Arafat. He'll become a martyr, and inspire his people onward to inflict more violence against Israel.

Actually, they do encourage the suicide bombers. Arafat, bin Laden, and others have spread such appealing propaganda and make heroes out of the suicide bombers, that that encourages more people to do it for the recognition of their percieved nation.

 

Slightly off topic here.
I posted this late last night and haven't had a chance to see the reposonses till now. I was reading them and wondering, "Why does everyone going after me for this?" I had cut and pasted this from a web site. The author's name was above a picture, so I hadn't included it in my cut and paste. I just forgot to put it in at the end (go ahead, feel free to give me hell for this.)
I was still looking for a discussion and responses like those given so far, just not at me. Sorry for the mix up. I've put the author's name at the end of the first post. Yes, he is Jewish. I myself am Catholic.

 

Thank god Elios, for a while there I thought you had completely gone off your topper. My post was aimed at the author of that post and as that isnt you neither is my previous post aimed at you.

 

also, people talk all about how many people the terrorists have killed. But if you look at a few years before the 2nd Enfitada, Isreal killed 25 TIMES the civilians that Palastinian militants did. Even after two years of massive suicide attacks, guess who has killed more innocents. Isreal has... almost twice as much in fact. Not denying that Arafat is a serious problem. But who refuses the UN to come in and protect the border.... Isreal. The Palastinians want them there. Who has broken OVER 500 UN resolutions? Isreal. The US needs to stop blindly supporting everything that they do and cut funding if they do not start behaving themselves (the same also applies to Palastinians sp? sorry). Remove those hundreds of illegal settlements that are the biggest problem and one of the worst points of contention. As long as Sharon is in office though, there will probably be no peace, same with Arafat, as both of these people are hatemongerers.

EDIT: Found an example of how news is twisted in America and how they always report and make a big deal of Isreali deaths but not the Palestinians. Since the 2nd intifada, 528 children have been tragically killed. But guess what, only 92 were Isreali. 436 were palestinians. So we already know Hamas and Arafat are terrorists, but what does that make the Isreali government (not the people, most of everybody on both sides want peace). Also, found some more numbers, since the Intifada starrted, there have been 1,985 palestinian deaths. 785 Isreali. Again, for a besiged nation, the numbers are lopsided. Too bad someone can't take out Sharon and Arafat, and put rationale people in charge of both countries.

[ September 18, 2003, 04:14: Message edited by: Jschild ]

 

Well, I am happy I waited awhile before replying, thus avoiding unnecessary attacks to fellow SP'ers.
It is sad to see how blind people can be, trying to justify an act of force by means of religion, forgetting (or deciding not to see) that supposed-to-be enemies are just of a different faith, not inherently evil.
I can maybe understand the frustration behind this bloke, but to generalize the acts of few to justify the driving out (or even worse) of a full population -furthermore implying that the same fate should be suffered by all Arabs- just drives me mad. Therefore I think I will stop here, before I am carried too much away.

 

The author was a rabbi, this tells you something.

 

Meaning ? That we should counter generalizations using other generalizations ? Because this is the way I am reading this post.

Unless of course you wanted to make a point, in which case could you please elaborate on this ?

 

Thank god it was not you Elios everything i said was aimed at the writer of this article and not you.

This means he is a priest of god for the Jewish population and sometimes a cultural advisor too. But from what he writes i would say that this guy is a zealot Jew not just a Jew. This means that he is obsessed by a very racistic idea that Jews are the Gods chosen and beloved and so they deserve to have what they want. People like him and like some muslim zealots are the root of the problem there. They do not step back even a mm from their demands.
But i thought that the god of Israel and in reality the god we worship too, is a god of love and understanding and mercy. I seriously wonder how him and guys like him have managed to sidetrack so much from the path they claim they follow. And i surely fear them

 

Have you read any major American newspaper from the past two weeks? We're a bit upset with Israel right now over them planning to beat the crap out of Arafat.

Not to go into a religious debate, but in the Old Testament, he's a vengeful god.

 

If we are mad at Isreal, why did we veto a resolution condemning Isreal's plan to kill him? Why? Because the US government will not allow ANY punishment for Isreal. We "said" it was because they did not condemn terrorists but what does that have to do with murdering a people's elected leader?