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Icewind Dale and Icewind Dale 2 with a friend

Discussion in 'Icewind Dale 2' started by littlejuggler, Feb 3, 2012.

  1. littlejuggler Gems: 1/31
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    Hi everyone!

    A friend of mine and I are planning on playing Icewind Dale. Now I'm wondering how fast paced the game is. I mean, does it take really long till a mage actually becomes useful, or does it take really long till dual classing makes sense? I played the Baldur's gate series, but can barely remember the first one. I played a fighter back then, so level ups weren't too important.
    Do you start at level 1 in ID II as well?

    Is it worth playing ID, or should we just start with ID II?

    Thanks for your responses!
     
  2. 8people

    8people 8 is just another way of looking at infinite ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    [​IMG] IWD2 takes place 30 years after IWD1, I found it satisfying to play 1 before 2 as there are characters that appear in both in different situations. Whilst it's not a necessity to play 1 before 2 it can give you a more thorough understanding of what has transpired to make some of the towns and people as suspicious as they are and what troubles they have faced.

    It's relatively fast paced, I'm by no means a good gamer, and don't spend too much time worrying on the mechanics of the game, or even decent party structure :p I also have dual or multiclassed in the IE games for quite a long time I'm afraid so can't help on that front.

    On the point of mages, in IWD 1 I found they are useful from early on with their ranged spells and utility magics but they are frail and need coddling until they can take a few arrow shots before folding like Superman on laundry day. IWD2 was fairly similar but less fragile.

    The two games also use very different rulesets, IWD1 uses the same rules as the BG series whilst IWD2 uses the same rules as NWN and tToEE.
     
  3. Proteus_za

    Proteus_za

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    Both games are not really what I would call fast-paced, at all. They may be fast-paced compared to Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 in that they are more combat focused, but are positively pedestrian compared to, say, Diablo II. Expect at least 20 hours to finish each game, if not more.

    I've never played IWD1, but really should one of those days. IWD2 is very good, but does start very slow. The first few chapters I actually find to be very difficult, because your spellcasters are not at a high enough level to make much of a difference. By the time they get up to power, about level 7 or 8, it gets considerably easier.

    Just bear in mind that dual and multiclassing works differently in IWD1 and IWD2. In IWD1, if you dual class at level 5 for instance, your new class starts at level 1, and you cannot level up in your old class anymore. Also, it will take the same amount of experience to go from level 1 to 2 in your new class, as it did in your old class. So it will take you a short time to get back up to level 5, because the first few levels go quick. Multiclassing simply divides the experience equally.

    In IWD2, things are a lot more flexible. Classes like Paladin can be taken by any race, and you can have a Paladin/Sorcerer if you like. When you gain a level, you choose which class to assign that level to. So you could carry on in your old class, or take a new one, as many of them as you like. You can level up in your old class, then your new class, then back to your old class, then choose another class altogether. All those levels remain, so for instance, you could have a Paladin 1/Monk 1/Sorcerer 18 (quite a useful combination actually). But, whereas taking a new class in IWD1 reduces the amount of experience you need for the next level, that does not happen in IWD2.

    Put it this way - your character level constantly increases, and you also gain levels in your classes. All characters, no matter what classes they have, need the same amount of experience for each level.

    I hope some of that makes sense? Best way to learn is to play!

    EDIT: Just in case it isnt clear, you cant import any characters from IWD1 to IWD2. Everyone starts from level 1 in both games. However, IWD2 includes a heart of fury mode, which allows you to go through the game a second time, for much greater risk and reward. Its a lot harder, but quite a lot of fun, and you get awesome items. I think IWD1 also has heart of fury mode, but I think it just increases the difficulty of the game, it doesnt let you go through it a second time.
     
  4. littlejuggler Gems: 1/31
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    Thanks for the replies! So, does it make less sense to dual class in ID than in ID 2? I'd love to play a Fighter/Mage dual class in ID, and probably a Thief/Fighter Multi/Dual.
    Do you think one game is better then the other, or are they just as good?

    Thanks a lot!
     
  5. Proteus_za

    Proteus_za

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    Umm I probably havent explained it well.

    Dual classing is not possible in IWD2. I'll try an example, hope that makes it clearer.

    I start with a human fighter at level 1. It takes him 1000 experience to hit level 2. I take the second level of fighter, and now he is character level 2 and fighter level 2. But I decide I want him to level up as a cleric. So, I gain the experience I need for the next level, which is 3000. I then take a cleric level. Now he is fighter 2/cleric 1, and character level 3 - the total of all his levels. He gains enough experience for the next level (6000), and I level him up as a fighter again. He is now fighter 3/cleric 1. At 10000, he gains his next level, and I put that into cleric. Notice that I select where to place each level after I get it.

    In IWD1, its different. Say I start with a level 1 fighter, and he gets enough experience for level 5. I dont know how much that is, lets use 10000 as an example. So I dual class him to cleric. Now to get to cleric level 1, it takes him 1000 only. Not 15000 or whatever it would have taken for fighter level 6. As a matter of fact, he can never level up as a fighter again. So he levels up, until he is cleric level 6. That may be somewhere like 15000 experience, it might not. important thing to note - it took him 10000 experience to get the first 5 fighter levels, it will be a similar amount for the first 5 cleric levels. Taking fighter levels does not make the cleric levels take longer, which it does in IWD2.

    I hope that makes things a bit clearer? Also bear in mind, only humans can dual class in IWD1, and everyone else can multiclass. In IWD2, anyone can do anything.

    Whether you choose to use multi and dual classing is completely up to you. It is wholly optional - you can definitely finish either game with six single class characters. Generally powergamers like myself abuse the hell out of the multi class system in IWD2. In BG2, which uses a similar ruleset to IWD1, it really depends on what kind of party I want to make. Dual class is probably my preference in BG2 though, except for classes like paladin and sorcerer, which cannot be dual classed or multiclassed at all.

    Which game do I prefer? Bear in mind I have never played IWd1 for more than 5 minutes. However, I did notice it is significantly more... old fashioned... than either Baldurs Gate 2 or IWD2. Like I dont think you can dual wield weapons, for instance. I think you just get an extra attack with a one handed weapon if there is nothing in your other hand.

    I also really really like the ruleset that IWD2 - but then I am a powergamer, it appeals to me.

    I would probably go with 8people's recommendation though - start with IWD1. See if you like it, if not you can move on.

    Let me know if you understand the multiclassing/dual classing stuff, just bear in mind it is completely optional.

    EDIT: One or two other things

    Fighter-> Mage dual classes are VERY good. It will be better to dual class in IWD1, than to multiclass in IWD2. This is because it takes less experience to take those initial few levels again. I'll use the example of a BG2 character I made - remember this corresponds to IWD1 rules. She was a human archer, which I dualled to mage at about level 9. This is about 250 000 experience. She started at mage level 1, and it took her only 1000 experience to hit mage level 2. In other words, nothing. I think it took her 300 000 total to get to mage level 10, which is where she regained her fighter abilities. Anyway, point is, now she is sitting at about 2.6 million experience, and the 250 000 she invested into the fighter classes, in the grand scheme of things, is nothing (she has 2.85 million total). Had I tried to do that in IWD2, it would have cost me far more experience to get levels like that. Say, she is now only 1 level behind my sorcerer. If I had done that in IWD2, she would be 9 levels behind. Make sense?

    I like to make multiclass fighter/thieves - I think they effectively combine good attributes from both classes.

    EDIT 2: it is still worth multi/dual classing in IWD2. But you dont generally make fighter 15/rogue 15 characters in IWD2. Its usually things like Fighter 4/Paladin 18, or Paladin 1/Sorcerer 18. You mix in one or two levels to benefit the character, you dont devote too many levels to them if you can help it.
     
  6. littlejuggler Gems: 1/31
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    Thanks for the great reply, I did understand it this time! I think I'll try a fighter/mage dual class and a thief/fighter multiclass. Is it better to multiclass or dual class fighter/mage or /fighter thief? Also, if I start as a Fighter for the Fighter/Mage, at what level should I switch to Mage? And what Weapon profecincies would be best? Thanks a lot again!
     
  7. Ishad Nha Gems: 7/31
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    In ID2, I like to multiclass a Barbarian/Rogue, take first class at even levels and take the second class at odd levels. Ditto Fighter/Paladin is possible.
    But multiclassing a spellcaster is pointless, too much casting power is lost. At most, take one level of something else. A 10 Cleric/10 Mage is far less useful than a 20 Cleric or 20 Mage.
     
  8. Sir Rechet

    Sir Rechet I speak maths and logic, not stupid Veteran

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    Multi/dualclassing in a nutshell:

    2E games such as IWD1: Dualclassing can net you up to 9 (or even 10) levels for practically free, such that a Fighter 9 dualled to a Mage is pretty much always better than a straight Mage - you get much more hitpoints, can actually hit stuff in combat and so forth with just a couple hundred thousand exp. So you're going to end up less than a level behind the corresponding single class character.

    3E games such as IWD2: Any level taken in other than your main class is a permanent setback in level. However, you get most (if not all) of the main benefits of a new class already at level 1 so often there's no need for more anyway. Also, ALL classes will get you fighter-like abilities (more and better attacks and hit points), casters just get it slower than real warriors do and the others (such as Rogue and Bard) are in between.
     
  9. Fallen Paladin

    Fallen Paladin The One and the Same Veteran

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    For Icewind Dale 1, I would use a dual classed fighter/mage and a multi classed fighter/thief.
     
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