1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

How to play Fallout the first time? Is it fair?

Discussion in 'Fallout Series' started by kmonster, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. kmonster Gems: 24/31
    Latest gem: Water Opal


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,917
    Likes Received:
    24
    I've played Fallout for a few days and I've just arrived in Junktown (didn't start exploring yet, so please no spoilers from the later part of the game)

    I've found out that the game depends a lot on luck and you can enforce it, you can reload at map travels until you get positive travel encounters, you can reload when using healing or doctor skill, you can save and reload for nearly each single enemy to avoid wasting ammo or getting hurt ...

    The question is: Am I supposed to work this way ?

    The game seems to demand it. You've a time limit of only 150 days, and travelling from a location to another can take weeks. You're supposed to get to Vault15 as fast as possible, but if you go there directly you waste weeks.
    You get stat boosts from random encounters and have to choose certain dialogue options to get them or not, not fair if you don't enforce metagaming knowledge and talk like you would instead.
    In houses are shelves. Sometimes there are books which even improve your skills permanently or other very useful stuff you're supposed to take, sometimes you mess up the game just by looking inside.
    Stealing skill is useless if you don't reload since a failed attempt messes up everything.
    The scorpion cave is hardly doable if you don't have Ian in the party, but it's random if he agrees to join or demands money you don't have.

    I'd like restart and roleplay this game like I played IWD2, don't reload at dialogues, don't save before trying something, don't use metagaming knowledge.
    But does this make sense or is this game too unfair, rather made as a strategy game with learning by dying ?

    What do you recommend ?
     
  2. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    9,740
    Media:
    15
    Likes Received:
    436
    Gender:
    Male
    Play it whatever way you enjoy it most.

    As with anything, have your character do what they are able. The stealing skill is rather useless at the very beginning of the game -- but you get better at it with time.

    I usually save at the beginning of each town. If I seriously hose something up, I can always reload that part. It is very rare you can mess up your game, it allows you to be dispicable. You can make the game more difficult by playing evil though.
     
  3. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,111
    Media:
    99
    Likes Received:
    99
    Gender:
    Male
    You increase the replay value if you don't reload at every encounter. Saving at times is essential even if it's just to be safe. But if you keep reloading the game to get the "best" results you might just miss some important stuff.

    Some of my best Fallout moments are occasions of great failure.

    I think stealing is broken in that game, the higher your skill the less XP you earn but if you fail it can mess up your entire game.

    One tip in Fallout is to use alcohol on NPCs to lower their perception and increase your chances at stealing.

    Don't worry too much about the time limit, it's not as bad as you think.

    Depends on what you enjoy the most. If it's powergaming and getting the "best" character then the choices are going to involve foreknowledge, if not just pick whatever dialogue option you prefer.

    I once went berserk and slaughtered the entire brotherhood of steel with a character who as a result didn't get the operations or a power armour. Not the optimal long term choice but it was a lot of fun!

    You must be thinking of Razla in Shady Sands. He gives you a warning but it's not so easy to notice it. Having to kill everyone at Shady Sands, run away or reload is one good reason to save beforehand.

    The caves are not that hard if you have a character who knows how to handle a weapon. Ian makes things a lot easier at that point because he is still a better fighter. Ian will join you for 100 caps anyway so I don't see the problem (you can always get back the caps from him afterwards).
    If you have a better than average charisma Ian will join for free more consistently.

    If you think IWD2 is more of a roleplaying game then I think we'll have to agree to disagree. IWD2 is the strategy game not Fallout. Do you think it's unfair because your character is limited in some ways? Not being able to plunder all the shelves because some NPCs won't let you is not a limit IMO. Getting a few extra points in your skills is always nice but it hardly makes the game unplayable if you don't go out of your way to get them.

    Kmonster, it would help to know which build you choose to ascertain what difficulties you might have run into. Some choices are great late game choices but make the early game a real pain.

    I believe it would be a pity to use reloads too much in a first run through the game. You're still discovering a game which in my books is one of the best ever made (if not the best). Don't spoil it. Sure, you'll make mistakes and suboptimal choices but you'll enjoy discovering things a lot more.

    One example of this is the dumb character. Low intelligence will seriously impair your communicative skills and your character won't be able to interact with everyone or get all the quests. So it's certainly not the "best" choice (especially at the start) but it's a very funny way to play the game.
     
  4. Ziad

    Ziad I speak in rebuses Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,088
    Media:
    57
    Likes Received:
    47
    Doesn't the patch reduce the time limit? I remember there being a patch/mod that either reduced it greatly or removed it entirely.
     
  5. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,111
    Media:
    99
    Likes Received:
    99
    Gender:
    Male
    That's the first time I hear that the patch would do that. Sounds weird to me. In any case, you wouldn't need such a mod anyway since 150 days are more than enough to retrieve the water chip (plus you can get some extra time in game if you are hard pressed).

    The water merchants in the Hub can sell water to the vault and of course no need to mention that the game doesn't end when you find the chip.
     
  6. kmonster Gems: 24/31
    Latest gem: Water Opal


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,917
    Likes Received:
    24
    Although I don't know if I'll end up totally frustrated I've decided to restart and try the game without reloading unless my character or a party member dies or a whole town gets hostile. You just can't get a roleplaying feeling if you reload all the time and test the outcomes of all possible options.
    It destroys the tension if you're able to enforce being lucky just by reloading.

    I'm thinking about starting with the "gifted" and "good natured" traits and the following stats

    ST 6 PE 7 EN 6 CH 5 IN 9 AG 9 LK 5

    and choose small guns, energy weapons and speech as tag skills.

    I'm quite sure about ST (low carrying capacity is annoying), EN (double regeneration rate), IN (additional skill points make the character stronger) and AG (extremely useful in combat), but I'm undecided how to distribute the remaining points among PE,CH and LK.

    "Small guns" were extremely powerful as far as I've played and futuristic "energy weapons" are supposed to be quite effective later.

    I'll take the "good natured" trait since it will cost me only 10 skillpoints to even out the penalty with those two weapon types while the bonus to "barter" is alone worth 15 skillpoints. I've read that "big guns" and "throwing" aren't worth using and melee and unarmed can be raised by other means, as well as "first aid", "science", "repair" and "outdoorsman".

    I'm uncertain if I should take "speech", "lockpick" or "doctor" as 3rd tag skill. How often does high speech help and how often do you have locks to pick ?

    With the first skillpoints the character gets I plan pumping up "small guns" to 150 or so.
    I need some advice if and how high I should raise the "speech", "doctor", "sneak", "lockpick" and "traps" skills since I neither know how often they are needed nor for which values they are checked in the game.

    Comments and advice for improving or developing my build who will try to beat the game pretty unspoiled while keeping the number reloads at minimum are welcome.
    Please try not to spoil more than needed. ;)
     
  7. hannibal555 Gems: 9/31
    Latest gem: Iol


    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    327
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    8
    Interesting.
    I just started Fallout myself for the first time :).
    Must be the Fallout 3 hype. Though I don't think I will like the 3rd.

    I'm in Shady Sands, not very far into the game.
    But I finished the scorpion cave without a NPC with almost the same
    setup as your char (6 Str 4 End 9 Int 10 Agi with gifted trait. Perception would be high and charisma + luck medium, don't know the exact stats right now)
    I tagged Small Guns as well.
    Wasn't that easy but I didn't have to reload.

    Besides, what is the point with the NPC's?
    Didn't know in the first place there would be some in this game.
    How are they used compared to infinity games?
     
  8. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,111
    Media:
    99
    Likes Received:
    99
    Gender:
    Male
    That build looks good (high Luck scores give some pretty good bonuses). By the way Big Guns can be fun (with Fast Shot of course).

    Speech is a must if you want to talk your way out of problem or get more information. If you plan on shooting your way through the game don't bother too much.

    Doctor is a tag I always choose, if you play with rough combat on you should tag it, otherwise you can do without it (crippled limbs are quite rare at lower difficulties).

    Sneak is effective but you'd need to ask yourself whether you want to put points in a skill that won't really help you getting rid of your enemies. A few points are more than enough unless you plan on playing a sneaky type.

    Lockpick can make the game less frustrating. You'll get more loot that way and less hassle. Not that bad a choice.

    Traps is not something that will be as useful unless you're thinking of planting a lot of explosives or course.

    80 to 100 in a skill is good enough for most skills (with a high perception it gives you a fair chance of hitting your enemies, aimed shots are another matter in that case going over the top is good).

    I thought I wouldn't like Fallout 3 but I must confess I like it a lot so far.

    NPCs in Fallout 1 don't level up (they do in Fallout 2) you can't equip them with just any weapons or armours (more in Fallout 2) and you can't freely barter or give them more specific orders like in Fallout 2) you can steal from them to get back your stuff though.

    You don't control them in combat but I like that, they feel like real people making fools of themselves and you end up cursing at them. Just make sure you don't give a SMG to Ian and tell them not to move close to you (in Fallout 2 you can "push" them, you can't in Fallout 1).
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2008
  9. kmonster Gems: 24/31
    Latest gem: Water Opal


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,917
    Likes Received:
    24
    The game is full of surprises.

    In vault 15 I find a crowbar, accidentally drop it to the ground when trying if there was an "use" option for this item and when I want to pick it up it's gone forever, never to be seen again, although I searched the area for an eternity. :bang:

    I thought I could rescue Tandi at the raider base by talking like before, but I was shocked that I got attacked, 60 speech failed where 45 speech had succeeded before. So we had to fight. Stupid Ian always stood in the doorway, blocking and rendering my character useless. :doh: So he wasted both stimpaks and ran away afterwards. But the extreme power of the machine gun was still enough to wipe out the raiders.

    Now I've just met the leader of Junktown, Killian in his shop. After talking to him my character gets the stuff looted in the raider base from Ian in order to sell it and to clear the annoyingly big inventory and get money for it, and what happens ? Battle mode triggers (I first thought they'd all attack my character because of a bug or so), someone shoots at Killian, Killian shoots back and hits my character standing between them, my character retreats but Ian attacks Killian who doesn't survive, afterwards my character gets 600 XP for his role at this assassination and his Karma drops by 5 although he didn't even shoot once. :confused: :doh:
    Killian's money did disappear into nothingness (a miracle :good:), there's none on his body so I'm stuck with my equipment.

    After killing the the guards I saved the game in a new save game slot. I still have a save from only a few minutes before this incident, I'll decide tomorrow if I continue, but since I decided to avoid reloads, I'll have to bear this bad luck if I don't want to feel like cheating. :o
     
  10. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,111
    Media:
    99
    Likes Received:
    99
    Gender:
    Male
    The crowbar thing is weird, I picked it up numerous times, perhaps you dropped it somewhere you can't see it. The game can be rather tricky as far as dropped objects are concerned.

    Regarding the Raiders, the quest only triggers after you visit the caves. In my last game it took a long time for Tandi to get abducted. Ian won't move and you can't tell him to (you can in Fallout 2 although Ian is no longer around).

    The incident in Junktown is meant to happen, although the Vault Dweller is not supposed to come between Killian and Kenji (standing in the way caused Killian to shoot you instead and made a real mess of things). As you've found out, you're held responsible for your follower's actions (that being said, Ian wouldn't have attacked Killian if he hadn't become hostile).

    The money disappearing is awkward (something that turns out better in Fallout 3) but you can still loot his place. There is also money in his safe if you can get to it.

    Let's face it there are no stray bullets in Fallout and it's something you can use to your advantage sometimes.

    I wouldn't use the previous save unless I didn't want to play the game a second time. If you don't want to play the game again then you should save and use different slots just to see all the possibilities (there are many things to be found) but it may not be as rewarding.
     
  11. Slowpoke Gems: 2/31
    Latest gem: Fire Agate


    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't remember since last time I've played it (a long time ago): does Dogmeat count towards the max follower limit?
     
  12. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,111
    Media:
    99
    Likes Received:
    99
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't think that this limit was implemented in Fallout 1, so this shouldn't be a problem.
     
  13. kmonster Gems: 24/31
    Latest gem: Water Opal


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,917
    Likes Received:
    24
    Finally my character died for the first time. It happened after he offered to help the farmer he met in the HUB to help him to free his farm. I expected to get the farm added to the map, but my party got teleported there instead. After entering the house my party didn't survive long.
    Since I don't even know if it's possible to return to the area once you left it I had to retry until I won. My tactic was running around the house until Ian and the dog were far away when opening the door so they wouldn't run in and commit suicide. Staying outside and waiting for the enemies to come did the trick.

    Later I reported to the hub police that the crime boss hired me to kill someone, but I didn't stand a chance when helping the police to arrest him. This battle is not winable with my level 5 character, so I had to reload. Since I hadn't saved before selling my stuff to the merchant, I had to redo the procedure which took about an hour :bang:. Selling stuff is so annoying in Fallout.

    Before this happened my character got radiated in Junktown when he used the doctor skill on himself. :confused:

    I've found the library in the Hub and bought books to raise skills there. The number of books is unlimited, but with 38 barter skill I had to pay 5.55 times the normal price to get books there. I also doubt that it is worth spending two in-game hours just to raise one skill by 1-2 points, at least not before finding the water chip.
     
  14. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,111
    Media:
    99
    Likes Received:
    99
    Gender:
    Male
    Iirc the farm can only be accessed that way, when you complete it you get a very nice gun that suits Ian perfectly.

    Spending time in some locations will increase your radiation level, it's not the doctor skill that does it but the time needed to use the skill. This irradiation seems to be somewhat random.
     
  15. kmonster Gems: 24/31
    Latest gem: Water Opal


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,917
    Likes Received:
    24
    Is there a way to avoid getting radiated or to to avoid the radiation increase once you're radiated ?
     
  16. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,111
    Media:
    99
    Likes Received:
    99
    Gender:
    Male
    Just take Rad Away, this chem will decrease your level. Go to the Hub, talk to Jacob the arms dealer, he'll tell you about Vance who sells all kind of chems.

    I always buy and keep Rad Away since radiation poisoning is a pain.

    If you've joined the Brotherhood of Steel the medic will cure you for free or you can go back to the Vault to visit the medic there.
     
  17. kmonster Gems: 24/31
    Latest gem: Water Opal


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,917
    Likes Received:
    24
    I've taken one Radaway, radiation got removed but my character got addicted to it.
    And now I'm radiated again, again after using the doctor skill, this time in the Hub. Good thing I'm addicted to the cure now. :lol:

    Ian is now using a combat knife, he doesn't use a gun any more which makes him quite useless. Is there a way to make him use a gun again ? If not which is the best weapon he would switch to ? Does his full inventory mess up the inventory management ?

    Another question: are party members still useful later in the game or is keeping them alive harder than playing alone ?
     
  18. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    9,740
    Media:
    15
    Likes Received:
    436
    Gender:
    Male
    Take away the combat knife or give him ammo. He uses the weapon which he has the highest probability to hit and causes the most damage.

    I only lost Dogmeat in Fallout I. But keeping everyone alive at the end of Fallout II was quite challenging.
     
  19. kmonster Gems: 24/31
    Latest gem: Water Opal


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,917
    Likes Received:
    24
    I can't take away the combat knife from Ian since it's in his weapon slot. Even the knife's maximum damage isn't as high as the pistol's minimum damage. :(
     
  20. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,111
    Media:
    99
    Likes Received:
    99
    Gender:
    Male
    Use Steal on him after he sheathes his weapon and never ever give him a knife to carry.

    Ian is definitely the type to bring a knife to a gunfight. :lol:
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.