How to make Haer'Dalis effective in the early going?

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While I'm not new to bg2, I've never used barbs must less blades. I hear that he becomes very powerful in ToB and is one of the best NPCs, but let's face it, he pretty much sucks if you get him just out of the Irenicus' dungeon. Even a few hits will kill him and he can't anything anyway, so most of the time he just sings, casts spells or goes into a defensive spin. Offensive spin is okay, and I know it'll get better, but he's still not there yet to be going in the front lines. Any tips to using him effectively?

[ September 25, 2004, 21:22: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

 

hey Egervi

I know you disdain cheating, but I also like Haer'Dalis so I used SK to alter some of his stats to make him the NPC he was meant to be.

In all the game guides, they advice Haer'Dalis to be used as a ranged archer. I found this to be somewhat counterintuitive to what he was meant to be as a character since he has two awesome swords to dual-wield with right off the bat, Enthropy and Chaos. I used SK to lower his terrible AC to the same level as Keldorn, 8. He's meant to be a melee fighter, right? I also raised his HP to something reasonable and about the same as Minsc and Keldorn, my frontliners. That's all he really needs from SK.

As for items and goodies he needs in the game. The Melodic Chainmail you find in the Astral Prison is perfect for Haer'Dalis: equipped, it gives him a great AC and plus he can still cast his mage spells. I then buy mostly protective mage spells for him. Stoneskin (found in Bridge District vendor and Watcher's Keep vendor) is invaluable to Haer'Dalis, since it protects him from the first several melee attacks thrown his way. Blur is also very effective as is Spirit Armor. I also give him the Boots of Speed so his attacks from his two swords come at a much faster rate. With all the extra side effects of Chaos and Enthropy affecting the opponent (poison, for instance) and Minsc's Celestial Fury which can be acquired relatively early on, melee opponents will have a fit being stunned/poisoned/damaged all in a few rounds.

But Haer'Dalis still needs a lot of protection. If you have the ItemUpgrades Mod installed in your game, you would do well to spend the extra coin on Ring of Perservation+2. Ring of Regeneration stolen from Ribald and a Ring of Protection+2 ring from the encounter with Galveray during the Harper's Hold quest. AC bracers and Cloaks of Protections round off the list of what Haer'Dalis needs to survive the front lines.

But, if you want to keep Haer'Dalis strictly NOT Shadowkeeper influenced, the only reasonable way to do so is to keep him as a ranged archer. There is a great bow for him to get very early on, the Elven Bow+3 which is found in the secret altar room in the de'Arnise keep filled with all the golems. In Chapter 2, you will not be strong enough to take on all those golems, so just grab the Elven Bow and drink a potion of invisibility and come back later on when you can defeat those Golems for their XP. You can then equip Haer'Dalis with the proper ammunition, but watch out since getting waylayed by enemies usually means melee fighters are right next to Haer'Dalis. I suggest for those encounters that you cast Stoneskin on Haer and move to a safe distance to use your bow, or actually go melee on them as the Stoneskin keeps you safe.

Hope this helps.

 

Stoneskin lasts for 12 hours, so take advantage of that and always have it on.

I disagree with Wordsmith. Haer'Dalis can be used as a melee, but you have to be a bit more careful than with your other tanks. After all, the Blade's defining features are his Spins. With Defensive Spin and a proper set of armor (and the proper self-buffing spells), Haer'Dalis is nearly untouchable.

And again, don't forget that Bards eventually have access to all mages spells up to level 8. Prot from magic weapons, Stoneskin, Blur, Mirror Image. And since he has more HP and MUCH better AC than a mage (as Wordsmith said, Melodic Chain Mail is a very good armor early on), you can send him to the frontline to cast spells up close and personal.

Haer'Dalis does not "suck" in any way at the beginning. He just requires more management than the others. Once you know how to use it, his kit is overpowered, even early on in SOA.

 

My advice is to take advantage of his offensive spin as well. When going into battle, locate one or two of the weaker opponents, and hit offensive spin. Kill the weak ones before they have a chance to do any damage. The speed bonus from the offensive spin comes in handy.

 

@Wordsmith
The golems will come after you if you take anything other than the flail component. Sure you can sanctuary and run but that just doesn't feel right. Just kill them one-by-one before reaching out for that stuff or grab-run then range attack from outside the door.

I believe that if Haer'Dalis uses both defensive spin and freedom-of-movement, he gets a better defence without the movement restriction.

The way to use him is as support melee. Get some high AC charecter to attract all the attention. Keep him last in your line of charecters so he gets to the action after everyone else. Thus there is less chance of getting his ass kicked.

And hey! Dont knock the bard song. Its more useful during the early charecters than Haer'Dalis swinging about his short-swords without hitting anything.

 

All the information you will ever need on a Blade. Its the guide which converted me from a Bard hater to lover.

I suggest reading it yourself. It contains a lot of useful information on the class, which I am sure you can adapt to Haer'Dalis. Its certainly better than any advice I could give you here.
http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/Scythesongs_Guide_to_Blades.zip

 

Thanks for all the replies. I've been using blur and stoneskin actually already. For me, this was quite obvious since I do the same with fighter mages and all of my characters in Icewind Dale 2. Mirror Image is not a bad spell to cast either.

I will look for that Melodic Chain though, since I think that's one of my annoyances with haer'Dalis so far. If it can improve his AC and remove the problem so I don't have to remove my armor to cast spells, that would be a big help. Since I never played a Bard in my other runs in the game, I just forgot this armor existed.

I've been using the Offensive Spins, and they have helped a bit although his thac0 is still too low to be meaningful. I think he does about the same damage as an ordinary fighter without haste since the fighters will hit more. This doesn't seem to good right now since I can only make him do the same damage as a fighter 3 times per day. I know this should get better, but I'm waitng for it to happen.

As for defensive spins, I've tried them but he still dies. I think the AC is just too bad. Also, with 44 hit points, that is also a problem. However, it seems like the enemies hit him hard all the time (not just frequently). My PC has something like 90 hp right now but she only loses 4 or 5 hp each hit while haer'dalis can be dead in 2 hits. Granted my PC has better AC, but neither of them have damage reduction abilities right now so I'm curious why Haer'Dalis gets hit harder.

I'm going to read that guide. I think that should help me out a great deal. Thanks.

 

I'm guessing your Haer Dalis wasn't wearing any armor when he was hit?
Based on experience I've found out that characters not wearing any armor will get pummeled more than the ones wearing something simple like Leather Armor+0. One will take more damage from the same hit than the other.

At earlier levels Haer is more of a chance-dependent NPC. Although he is easily the most damaging fighter-type character in the game during the first few chapters, he will be restricted by his low THAC0 and HP. This is understandable, since the game was supposed to be balanced .

One part of the problem is easy enough to handle, as you mentioned.
The Melodic Chain (compulsory for any Bard) and mage defensive spells (Improved Invisibility/Blur/Mirror Image/Stoneskin) will compensate for his low HP by raising his AC to a significantly higher degree - enough for him to survive long enough to do his job.
Solving the other part of the problem is the blunder, though, that has become one of the main causes of the Bard's ill reputation.

The simple solution is to offer Haer any THAC0 increasing item you can spare. For some, this is a logical blunder, but don't forget that he can hit for more than the average fighter with his spins. Besides, fighters don't need the additional THAC0 against normal monsters. And when it comes to boss fights, Haer's load of buffs and Offensive Spins comboed with these items will yield better results than if you stick them with your fighters.

THAC0 reducing items include the gauntlets you find in the Planar Prison, and the girdle of hill giant strength. Try giving them to Haer unless your PC is using them. Another item that will add to Haer's destructive power is the short sword of speed found in the Planar Prison, which allows Haer to catch up with a fighter in terms of attacks per round. Paired with Belm for four attacks per round, adding to 5 with Offensive Spin, and he'll be hitting enemies and saying "A solid blow!" much more frequently. The results are better left discovered.

The last part Haer should play in a party is as an Archer. Jan or Yoshi would make a better Archer any day, and so he'll end up as dead weight.
His song, at this point, is also pretty useless (+1 to all allied rolls). He'll fare better as a backup spellcaster, since Bards spells will do more damage and are more effective than a Mage's.

PS
I'll be improvising the guide soon. since it's not as comprehensive as I want it to be. A little less doctrine and more facts in the next version, among other things.
EDIT: Typos

[ September 26, 2004, 20:19: Message edited by: Scythesong Immortal ]

 

I've always felt that buffing a NPC for a majority of encounters seems a bit ridiculous... Haer'Dalis shouldn't be buffing up against random encounters or dungeon crawls, unless severely taxed.

@ Scythe

for me, Haer'dalis is a pretty effective archer since I already have Minsc and Keldorn as frontliners, with my PC mage, Jaheira, and Korgan using ranged attacks. I've found that some of the doorways during dungeon crawls can be too tight to cram three melee fighters, and what ends up happening is your whole party getting slaughtered as they struggle to fit through the door, or at least one melee fighter not doing anything since he can't reach the enemy.

And which equipment did you mention improves THAC0? I think Hill Giant Strenght is too important to give to a third-string melee fighter, though.

 

I use Haerdalis on the frontline, and he is usually the only tank later on. Haerdalis' ability to cast powerful spells, even when he is low level is what makes him good (eg - his chromatic orb will petrify when others are still doing extra damage only), so if you are not willing to buff him up for encounters, then why did you pick him in the first place? Get a simple point and click tank like Korgan, or play Diablo.

 

Scythsong Immortal: You wrote that guide? Thanks; I thought I'd pretty much exhausted Haery's capabilities, but you opened up a whole new world of bard-shaped killing fun. High caster level stuff never occured to me. Looking forward to the update

In previous games, I have used Haer'Dalis as a support character. He would mostly join the second wave of melee attackers after casting illusion spells and buffs, following the tanks so that he could dish out pain without getting squished. If melee got too tough, he could always fall back and help out with the spellcasting or play bodyguard to the weaker magic users. He'd basically run around helping out whoever was in the most trouble. Thanks to the brilliant Blade guide, however, Haer'Dalis is going to kick far more arse in my future games. Might even try a Blade PC...

 

I've played to the midway of ToB now with Haer'Dalis in my party. And it really is true that he becomes exceedingly more powerful during the journey. While the spins are good, I rarely use them. The thing is that the battlefield is everchanging, and a character that can't move for several turns is either dead, or useless for not having any enemies to beat.

My current party layout is Charname (Paladin), Valygar, Haer'Dalis, Anomen, Cernd and Jan. The last game I've gone all out with, doing every quest and reading every dialogue (not quite, but as well as I've been able) etc. Also containing all of the 4 characters (all except Valygar) I've never played through with before.

Haer'Dalis lives up to his name well enough. Unlike someone claimed, his spells only go up to level 6, but that's good enough. If you think of using him a a pure fighter, you'll be disappointed. Same as if you thought of using him as a pure mage. He really lives up to being a bard, as he's the kind of character that can find his place anywhere.

His stoneskin / mirror images combo makes him excellent in being the one to take a beating in combat while others deal damage (for example vs firegiants). When confronted by a mage, he will use true sight and breach while Jan is doing the more powerful castings. Haer'Dalis also gains the ability to use many different weapons as well. I currently have him wielding the Axe of Unyielding (the one that can decapitate with one hit) and the upgraded Sword of the Mask.

I don't remember him being that much of a bother in the beginning either. Perhaps because this party was never exactly ideal before. But it has grown to be quite the powerful one later on. And Haer'Dalis is certainly not the weakest link at this point.

 

@ Foradasthar

Haha you're playing with Cernd? Man, he is terrible, and he's probably the weakest character in your party right now. Bad AC, no spellcasting when in Werewolf form.

 

Actually, he is one of the most powerful characters I have. Greater Elemental summoning, Creeping Doom, and Aura of Flaming Death + Greater Werewolf combo make him a force to be reckoned with. And that's leaving out the tremendous help he can offer with his Mass Heals, Heals and protective buffs.

I actually feel this party is one of the most powerful ones I've every played with. It just started as weak. Kind of like a mage, weak to begin with, incredibly powerful with the full array of his spells behind him.

 

You should finish the Planar Prison ASAP after you get Haer'Dalis. Memorize plenty of Mirror Images and Stoneskins; I found Blur and Spirit Armor to be less effective compared to these two. Use Offensive Spin a lot, and save Defensive Spin for times when enemies crowd around you. With the Ring of Free Action you can move around while in Defensive Spin. When you finish Unseeying Eye, the Girdle of Fortitude will fix HD's CON problem. Put a proficiency point in long swords and plan on using short/long swords, as HD will eventually get two points in both (unlike any other Bard).

@Ziad
Bards normally can cast only up to level 6 spells. If you install the "Un-Nerfed THAC0 Table, Saving Throws, Grand-Mastery,and Arcane, Divine Spell Progression" mod from Ease-of-Use, you can cast level 8 spells eventually.

@Wordsmith
Boots of Speed increases movement rate but does not give extra attacks. If you're so fond of fixing NPCs with SK, why don't you do that with Cernd? Or try the Improved Shapeshifter mod and see if he's still terrible.

 

@ Drumheller

I did try to fix the NPC Cernd with SK.. didn't work out for some reason. I think I changed his class so he could wear some sort of armor to alleviate his terrible AC, but what ended up happening was he wasn't able to shapechange anymore. So I just gave up on him and picked a much better NPC to fill the 6th slot.

@Fordasthar

It's cool that you're liking Cernd, but as for me I will never but into him as a playable NPC. He is just too weak compared Anomen or Jaheira if you want a viable Priest spellcaster. And the spells you mentioned means you are in ToB by this point... Jaheira I believe has access to the same Quest spells, and Shapechange:Greater Elemental is available to her as well. But like I said, it's cool that you found a use for him in your gaming.

 

Foradasthar, that someone has Tactics installed, I guess. With this mod bards can memorize level eight spells. They get six slots per level as well. Turns them into major spellcasters. Later on my Jesters will mostly use their magics, do some singing - but almost no melee anymore. Their arcane powers have grown too powerful by then to let them do much of anything else.

 

Aye...that's true. A Blade is insanely powerful as it is, with lvl 6 spells. When he starts getting lvl 8 spells, its INSANE-er! (sp )

 

Just to pick a nit, I think it's actually the unnerfed thac0 etc. component of Ease of Use that lets a bard get above level 6 spells. I remember I had that installed, and being surprised when my solo blade had level 7 spells suddenly available; I wasn't expecting it, and thought it would be a bit overpoweed, so I just didn't memorize anything above level 6. Of course, that was an SOA-only game; I might have felt differently if I was playing TOB.

 

The "someone" was me I guess

Actually, I had neither the Un-nerfed componenent nor Tactics installed, but the level 50 cap from TeamBG. I just checked it, and it allows level 8 castings at bard level 29. Since I've always had the thing installed when I had bards, I assumed it was like that in the normal game too. Sorry for the confusion.