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Good mods

Discussion in 'BG2: Throne of Bhaal (Classic)' started by lwelyk, Sep 4, 2007.

  1. teardropmina Gems: 1/31
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    I would really like to have Amber for my next runthrough (only dig romanceable female NPCs ^^); however, AFAIK, its TOB content isn't released yet. I would like to take her through the whole thing. have no idea whether the creative team or the author still working on the project~~

    as for IA...it's very intimidating just think about that it's more difficult than tactics. It looks like it's only for those who can handle tactics on insane. reading all the older posts though, I find something criously paradoxical about the creative thinking in the making of this mod. The creater and players of this mod collaborate at once to make the game more challenging and try to fix any possible exploit of the game (something like gate in fiends to earn xp and disbaling cheats). Well, it's my feeling that majority of the gamers who would try this mod are those who would not take advantage of those exploits and hates cheesy "tactics" or cheats to begin with. that is, since the gamers will not "cheat" in non-IAed game in the first place, why does the mod prevent those "cheats"?

    also, I remember reading an incompatible list--there's improved Irenicus in there (don't know whether it's still the case now) -- well, does that mean the IA version of the final SoA fight is tougher than Tactics' one? if so, it should mean that IA "experienced" gamers consider Tactics SoA finale too easy~~ wow~~
    but as a lesser experienced gamer, I can understand the idea of IA -- when the challenge of Tactics worn out, experienced gamers would need flesher and more difficult challenges. Still, I still don't quite get that mindset of preventing something that the gamers wouldn't do.

    [ September 05, 2007, 16:55: Message edited by: teardropmina ]
     
  2. Sikret Gems: 13/31
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    Yes, it' surely more difficult than the one of "Tactics"; and yet, it's by no means the most difficult battle introduced to the game by IA. It probably stands in the 8th or 9th rank of difficulty among IA's battles (TOB and Watcher's Keep included of course).

    But identifying IA merely with its difficult battles would surely be a mistake. IA does much more than adding difficult battles to the game. The list of things it does are lengthy and can be found in its readme (ex: many new quests, many new types of monsters, expanded strongholds, Item randomizer program which changes the locations of the game's most important items randomly each time you start a new game, and many other features). And most importantly, despite its huge content it has absolutely no critical bugs.

    As for why we fix exploits which we never use ourselves, it's surely an interesting question.

    The answer is probably that we are perfectionists and want everything to be as flawless as possible. :) Plus, I receive requests from players to fix such exploits whenever any of them find one. And well, I then just fix it as per request. :)

    Cheers
     
  3. teardropmina Gems: 1/31
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    I know, and that's why I said that the creater and the gamers "collaborate" to fix those exploits: it's not just you, it's also by gamers' requests. I'll go by the perfectionist answer, if the IA exploit fix stands alone and is put into other original BG2 bug fix packs because it'd contribute to leading the original game closer to "perfection." but discussion of motive is totally irrelvant here, that quesiton was just out of my criousity.

    as for IA has more than improved battles, yes, I do read the readmes -- but all those things are made to make the game more challenging and difficult, and so for me, they're all created from the concept of "difficult." for example, I really like the randomized item feature, but I don't see any rationale other than "making it more difficult" in creating this feature -- gamers will not be able to get powerful weapons or armors as easy and as "habit" as in the original game; need to get it from improved enemies. Harder to find and harder battles to fight to get them. or like new monsters --I don't reckon they're created because they're "new", rather than becuase they'd post a challenge for experienced gamers?
     
  4. lwelyk Gems: 3/31
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    Okay, thanks for the advice. I'm going to start it today. Also, thanks for the install order Shaitan
     
  5. Shaitan

    Shaitan Always forgive your enemies; it annoys them so

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    Iwelyk: You're welcome.

    They work on it, but having a break and all, so I guess it takes a while.
     
  6. Sikret Gems: 13/31
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    To some extent yes, but not entirely so. The best words to put it are: "They are for creating a new gaming experience specially for experienced players who are tired of playing the same game over and over and already know by heart everthing in the vanilla game".

    Item Randomizer's main purpose is to add refreshing flavor to the game. Players will no longer know by heart where to look for each item.

    And the new quests surely are not added just to make the game more difficult. They are for adding more role-playing content and puzzles to the game. I strongly recommend everyone to play IA's new quests, specially the new quests added to the ranger stronghold to see what I mean.

    One other point about playing IA is that each time you pick a new and different class for your protagonist, you see things rather differently. It's not just that you will have different stronghold quests; apart from that obvious point, some other things will look somewhat differently as well.
     
  7. Stu Gems: 20/31
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    I'd be an exception to this and I'm sure there's others. I like the feature in that it forces you to try out and develop new tactics, rather than falling back to the same strategy or cheesy tactic after a failed reloads. A lot of satisfaction can be gained by pulling off a new battle plan against a nigh-impossible enemy.
     
  8. teardropmina Gems: 1/31
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    sorry, I'm a little lost here...you're an "exception" (based on what you quote)...so, you're an IAer who actually likes to take advantage of those exploits in the original game?~?

    anyway, I'd like to apologize for those IA comments of mine due to my lack of understanding of it...well, I've never tocuhed it, and as a less experienced gamer, I wouldn't try it in near future...so it's quite uncallful that I said anything about the mod as if I actually know what it is. I'll stop here^^

    @shaitan

    thanks for the head's up on the Amber modding progress. well, hope it'll come out after my current Tashia run^^

    [ September 06, 2007, 12:21: Message edited by: teardropmina ]
     
  9. Stu Gems: 20/31
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    Pretty much, yeah, I'm a powergamer at heart and the anti-cheese changes to IA have definitely impacted on my style of play. A few examples of this include luring enemies out of a group, closing doors, using PI to use limited charge items over and over again and hit and run tactics when it all gets too tough.
     
  10. teardropmina Gems: 1/31
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    ok...it's really interesting; guess everyone needs his or her peculiar medicine. you will actually need those exploits gone else you just cannot help but use them~~

    I'm different though; for example, I really like a little mod called improved summons. Those tougher summons help me a lot early in the game when the party is weaker; yet when Planatar and Deva come...they're simply too powerful and so I rarely summon them since they will single-handedly end lots of battles rather quickly. and since don't know how long ago, I stopped using Cloak of Mirroring (often time I sold it and in Tactics SoA finale, the only thing those five can deprive of my party is Amulet of Power). as for the PI trick--I never bother~~ I prefer high level Simulacra.
     
  11. Stu Gems: 20/31
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    See if I had improved summons and decided not to use them, I wouldn't... until I come up against an enemy or a group that wipes the floor with me two or three times in succession. I don't really like using cheesy stuff, I just find it preferable to reloading. Certainly more satisfaction is gained from defeating a hard enemy properly.
     
  12. Hethan the Skald Gems: 5/31
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    I started a new game a couple of days ago, so I decided to give him a try.

    My opinion is very similar to yours: I think he had a bit too much to say. He talked almost twice as often as Jaheira, who probably is the leader on non-mod interjections. This is specially bad in the case of Kivan.

    I installed the mod, rolled a Swashbuckler, made my way out of Chateau Irenicus, and there he was. Yaaaaaaay, Kivan is back. Even better, he's got the Archer kit. And the story of how he got to Athkatla seems plausible (he is a hero after all). All very promising, until not only he is talking way more than he should, but his lines are comparable to Jan's in length, and his personality, as charming as Haer'Dalis' (not that *I* think HD charming, but you get the picture).

    If this was the Coran NPC mod, I'd understand. But it's Kivan, for God's sake! He's silent, he's bitter, his social skills are lacking (8 CHA + disliking cities), and that's what makes him so cool IMHO. I surely appreciate Domi's effort, but I sincerely think that she got his personality all wrong.
     
  13. Shaitan

    Shaitan Always forgive your enemies; it annoys them so

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    I felt she did a great job
     
  14. Silverstar Gems: 31/31
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    I haven't played Kivan mod yet so maybe I should not comment, but IMHO it would be too easy to make Kivan only talk a few sentences in the whole game and answering short with 'yes' 'no' or 'maybe' words all the time. It seems the mod maker has put up quite an effort and time to the mod to make it full with rich interjections and banters and I appreciate that. I may try him next time, though I don't think archers will fare well in an IA game.

    And yes, Irenicus final battle of IA is actually way more difficult than tactics one, I had Minsc permanently killed in the middle of the battle and did not bother to reload as I was fighting for about fifteen minutes and was barely starting to win ground and have some breathing place. This is cool as I have already memorised tactics final battle:the battle was cool and the idea was original but once you learn each enemy's weaknesses (which is not that difficult anyway) and how to deal with them, they were not challenging really. I honestly can not say the same for IA battle as the enemies behave very intelligently according to your own actions, believe it or not! This, IMHO, shows a very high quality scripting and a lot of effort put in to this mod.

    As an IA gamer I was not used to use a lot of cheese, but I used hit-run tactics. Now I can not use them so I have to trust my wits and skill and luck and this makes such an exciting game play! It is as if BG2 is an all new game!
     
  15. Shaitan

    Shaitan Always forgive your enemies; it annoys them so

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    @Silverstar: I trust you'll manage even if the opponents cheated ;)
     
  16. Hethan the Skald Gems: 5/31
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    I don't intend to spit on the modder's effort. I have (little, but some) experience with coding NPCs and I can only imagine how much time and work a mod like Kivan (who adds not one, but TWO playable characters) took.

    Don't get me wrong: I also think that would make for a poor mod. And I'm aware that in BG1, characters were silent by default. But what bothers me is not the frequency of his interjections as much as his personality, which (I believe) strays too far from Bioware's concept. I see it more as an idealization of Kivan than a seamless integration of his "true" BG1 persona to SoA/ToB.

    But then, maybe that was the modder's intention, and I'm not in position of arguing with that. In the end it's only a mod, therefore I can choose to install it or not. If most people think it's marvelous, great. I don't. Life goes on and I'm sure Domi won't be offended because some guy publicly expressed his opinion that she didn't "get" the character.

    Silverstar, I don't want this to come off as a rant, so I won't you won't take it that way :)

    Granted, most things in BG2 are not as easily solved with ranged fighting as well as in BG1. I guess it's normal for higher-level campaigns. That's why I have more fun playing Tutu with Kivan as an Archer.
     
  17. Shaitan

    Shaitan Always forgive your enemies; it annoys them so

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    In IA 4,3 ranged fighting will be upgraded.

    Using BG1NPC mod and Kivan in BG2 doesn't give that big difference you describe. It works with a high sense of continuity (or whatever it is called)
     
  18. Western Paladin Gems: 10/31
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    I did notice that Kivan talks quite a lot, especially considering his backstory, in both BG1 NPC and the BG2 version. But I thought we were to understand it was because he likes you and trusts you more than other people.
     
  19. Boy at a busstop Gems: 5/31
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    I'm a bit dissapointed in the alterations made to Kivan as well. I saw him as a silent, grudgebearer who doesn't really give a hoot about anyone except his lost wife. He really shouldn't talk as much as he does, or at least, not as freely about his feelings. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who likes to talk about "feelings".

    Anyway, I'm intrigued by this randomization idea from IA, but I don't like the harder difficulty. Not the best strategist out there :D .

    Is there a mod that adds the same randomisation? Or are the makers of IA willing to make this a stand alone mod? I think it'd add a lot of replay value to the game, without adding a terrifying new level of difficulty.
     
  20. Shaitan

    Shaitan Always forgive your enemies; it annoys them so

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    No and no I guess after several likewise questions :)
     
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