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Future of the EU

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Malaqai, Apr 30, 2003.

  1. Malaqai Gems: 4/31
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    A couple of days ago I found (somewhere on the web) the plan of the EU regarding it's future expansion. In the year 2004 ten countries are joining in, and in 2007 a couple more. What I found interesting is that the EU wants to expand eastwards and, finally, meet Russia. The plan is that after Russia joins the EU, the EU would, after some time, become a country. The United states of Europe of sorts. Imagine the whole of Europe united. 1 000 000 000 people and the greatest millitary and economical might in the world... Do You think that a united Europe is a positive or a negative thing. Personally, I think it is an extremely positive thing but that is mainly because I live in Croatia, Europe.
     
  2. Mithrantir Gems: 15/31
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    This is indeed a very great project but do not forget that the different nationalities that exist in Europe have not been in entirely peacefull terms for a long time. This might cause some problems that come from the fear of one losing his national orientation. :confused:
    But this is something i would love to see and i really hope that EU will overcome all the presented difficulties and take that giant leap to a more humanitarian and peacefull society that will include Europe as a whole not parts of her. :D
    And to tell the truth this project has caused some serious headaches to the USA administration and most probably this is the real reason behind the attacks in Afganistan and Iraq. Because this way they will be able to control oil production and therefore control the global energy market.
     
  3. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Well, if it works for USA I don't see why it couldn't for Europe. Granted, with a lot more effort, but still. It's something worth striving for.
     
  4. Iago Gems: 24/31
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    I think the EU is a great idea. But it's a difficult task, because we all got different systems. But in the end, all Europeans are in the same boat ... ah ... on the same continent. If Europeans don't learn to stick together. Well, than they haven't deserved anything.

    But acutally, I am not so worried about the Americans. Americans are only a little bit younger than Europeans, meaning, they're old and grey too. Nor do I think, that Europa will again be a military power. Juste have the necessary military, not more. I don't think that Europeans are foolish enough to commit 4% of their GPD on military spending. Hey, we could build libraries and make more holidays in Greece, Ireland and Scandinavia.

    But the 21 century is going to be the century of China (and India, Indonesia a little bit behind). And to protect European interest versus a world full of huge countries like them, we either stick together or go down together. And military confrontation with those would be stupid. Make business, not war !!!!
     
  5. Fabius Maximus Gems: 19/31
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    I personally doubt that there will ever be a country called the "United States of Europe". We are just to different.
     
  6. Viking Gems: 19/31
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    The enlarged EU next year will be, in terms of GDP, about the same size as the USA. Very close anyway. Not actually much behind as it stands anyway, but there you go.

    The idea of a true United States of Europe is still far fetched, and there are as yet no provisions for this within the EU charter. Long term it is perhaps inevitable, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it anytime soon.

    There are some major obstacles in terms of uniting Europe this way, language, culture, history, religion etc. The US was to all intents and purposes a "new" continent being colonised, thus these things were not in the way. The Red Indians were, but that's a different story.

    Still, I see this as exciting times for Europe, and as long as we can all beat up the French enough to stop them being so bloody obstinate, I think we can within Europe go a long way together.

    I hope those of you who live in the acceding countries view this positively too. The EU welcomes Tal :grin:

    By the way, I think you guys still have to approve it locally too.
     
  7. Oxymore Gems: 13/31
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    I don't share your optimism.
    I do think that a united Europe is a positive thing, but I doubt that will be achieved by enlargement. As recent events pointed out, Europe political power is very weak because its members rarely share common views and interests on a particular matter. Imo eastern European country joining the EU will add yet other differences that will have to be overcome thus slowing the unification process. Also, some of these countries are now virtually US colonies since the fall of USSR, for example: Poland spending over 3 billions € in US-made warplanes only days after signing its adhesion in the EU seems like a backstab: it says the EU will have to deal with even more US influence in their own ranks than there already is.
    What could then happen is that the EU will remain a strong economy and lose everything else, no political will, no social security, no army, no danger to US leadership.
    What could also happen is that the big boys (namely Germany and France), growing tired of dealing with troublemakers, will take the lead and enforce their will on smaller countries.
    On a final note, I seriously doubt that Russia could join the EU any time soon.
     
  8. Malaqai Gems: 4/31
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    The main problem wiht us Europeans is that when a guy form China asks me where I am from, I will say that I am from Croatia, not Europe. Europe has something to build upon---A HISTORY. Since the times of Greek temples or the rise of Rome, Europe has always been The world. The north of Africa and Asia were the rest of the world.
    And so everybody wanted a piece of the cake. Even small countries like Croatia took pride in the fact that they managed to have their own kingdom. Do you see my point. EUROPE IS HOME to so many people and the only way to go around their differences is to find something they all are. Europeans.
    I think the EU will one day become a county. I firmly believe that we Europeans will finally realize that after the bloodiest century in history, we need our sword-arms strong and fast. And vigilant. And the arm can not act if the entire body is torn apart. Like Elrond said: "You will unite, or you will fall.!
     
  9. LKD Gems: 31/31
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    I don't see Europe fusing into one grand country. I see them allying closely econimically, militarily, and in some senses politiccally, but you have vastly different cultures, some of whom hate each other, and they're not likely to want to join together.

    As a counterweight to the US and China, though, go for all the allying you can!
     
  10. Pac man Gems: 25/31
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    A united Europe is wishful thinking, nothing more than a dream. Too much rivalry and pure hatred among most European countries. Differences that will never be put aside. It's a nice dream, but also a very naive one. It won't last.
     
  11. Iago Gems: 24/31
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    hm, so the alps and the dutch mountains will never unite. At least we drown together.

    Just had a vision, 2070, China,India and their new colony North-America ally to reshape Europe.
     
  12. Jack Funk Gems: 24/31
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    Sounds good to me. I doubt that it will be one country in my lifetime, but one economic body, hopefully. If it is good for the world then it is good for me.
     
  13. ejsmith Gems: 25/31
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    I'd like to see a USE too.

    You'll have to pick one language, or a couple. Teaching all children 3 or 4 languages is nice, but not efficient enough for all the other things that you'll be doing. Roads are the next point, as you already have the trains.

    And there's going to be a bunch of different laws that will have to be standardized, or you'll get criminals running over to another state, and you have to go through the process of extraditing them, which just bogs down your courts even more.

    It'll take some serious work (physically), and a whole lot of compromising (idealistically). But I really think the entire world would be a better place if all the EU nations did things together, instead of just co-operating and tolerating each other.

    It'll take a few years, I'd imagine, just to get used to the no-passport/visa thing...
     
  14. Mollusken Gems: 24/31
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    I'll move to New Zealand the day Norway joins the EU. Nothing about it makes sense to me.
     
  15. Mithrantir Gems: 15/31
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    Ejsmith we don't need to excommunicate our own language to become a nation and take the English or French or German as our native language in order to unite. Most Europeans know a second language and the most common are English.
    Also don't forget that the EU law is above every nation's law and generally there are not so significant differences in the laws of the european nations. And the EU laws are required to be accepted from every nation within this union so no problem with that.
    The real problem is how to maintain the different nationalities in a uniformed structure of a nation and this will take time due to the history and the past conflicts (i.e. serbs croatians) but although i will not see this i sincerelly hope my children will rise other these petty things and understand that the future lies in peacefull existence with our neighbours and not in continuous conflict. :D
    This is just my hope. :cool:
    @ Mollusken what exactly is not making sense; Wouldn't you like to have the opportunity to travel within Europe without passports customs and all the bureaucracy that goes with travelling;
     
  16. Iago Gems: 24/31
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    There are a lot of problems involving the EU. Some of them is mainly ignoring the positive side or making it positive.

    1. As non-member I say. Since the times of the Roman Empire 2000 years ago, there was never so much peace in Western Europe (except former Yugoslavia) than in the time since 1945. That is a huge, a giantic achievement.

    2. The EU has nearly no means to create positive emotions, except maybe the EC-sign and the Euro. And the Euro creates mixed emotions and I think that's an understatement. But something like a Europewide holiday or a European football-team would rule.

    European Football team -> players from all EU-member-states. A worthy opponent for Brazil. I'd even say, they would have a chance to win against Brazil. he, he, they're might even be able to compete with Brazil in the field of winning-parties. Yes, yes I know, that's impossible, because it would mean, that the Germans, French, Danish, British, Dutch etc. etc. etc. would have to let go of their own, highly worshipped national teams.

    At Ejsmith: You're idea with language is nice. But my country has a lot of funny little cute languages. And come hell or high water, we would never, never, never, never give one of our languages up. Well, maybe Rumansh. But I wouldn't dare say that to a Rumansh-speaker. And learning a lot of languages is good. It's good training for the brain and opens up one's mind.
     
  17. Mollusken Gems: 24/31
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    That's the problem. The EU laws can't possibly adjust to every single country's needs, and therefor many of them will be "unfair" for some. Norway is very different from Europe in many ways, and especially much of our economic politics could never be accepted by the EU.

    We have NATO for that.

    It will only bring trouble. If people are to move as they want between countries, how can we control where they are?

    The French have allready beaten them, and we beat them twice back in 1998. First 4-2 in a friendly, then 2-1 in the World Championship in France.
     
  18. Iago Gems: 24/31
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    Norway has beaten brazil ? I wasn't aware of that. :thumb: No, I was mainly referring to the desaster 2002. Germany ? Final ? Without being able to play football at all ? How has this been possible ?

    They do it already. EU-passport gets you in. People with no EU-passport (poor fellows like me) have to wait in line. And when I travel between countries, I don't want to be controlled. And people you want to control, usally master the art of getting anywhere they want while evading every kind of control anyway.
     
  19. Mithrantir Gems: 15/31
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    That's the reason they made the Shenghen treaty. When one travels from one EU country to another he has to show his ID with this they even know what you ate for supper if there is need to know.
    Furthermore do you know for sure that the economical politics of Norway (which i'd love to visit or even stay there) are not accepted in the EU. I think that EU is only having concern over some major economical rates (inflation) not on all subjects.
    Anyway noone is forcing anyone and if Norway does not want to become a member that is Norway's choice and she has to cope with it. :)
     
  20. Viking Gems: 19/31
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    :lol:

    Mollusken, why should anyone want to? Should we make legislation as to where people should live?

    Or are you scared that Norway would be swamped by our European bretheren? Who are of course already perfectly entitled to live in Norway......
     
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