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Evolution vs Creationism

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Silvery, Dec 30, 2008.

  1. Nataraja Gems: 12/31
    Latest gem: Moonstone


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    Im pretty sure* that the universe is probabilistic, and that it originated from nothing. All I want to know is where do the virtual particles come from and go to...

    *I mean as sure as anything in science ever is...
     
  2. NOG (No Other Gods)

    NOG (No Other Gods) Going to church doesn't make you a Christian

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    Why are you 'pretty sure' the universe came from nothing?

    As for the virtual particles, I'd like to know if there's anything real there to begin with before I start asking questions about where it comes from or where it goes.
     
  3. Nataraja Gems: 12/31
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    I dont have the room, nor sufficient training in physics, to explain it fully here. This video explains it better than I ever could, it is a talk given by Lawrence Krauss at and Atheist Alliance International conference.



    As said above, I am no physicist, I have no way of testing and verifying anything said, and I unfortunately no longer live with physicists so I cannot ask them for their opinions on the matter. It is more plausible, however, than what one of the cosmologists at my university has put forward to explain dark matter, dark energy and things like that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2015
  4. NOG (No Other Gods)

    NOG (No Other Gods) Going to church doesn't make you a Christian

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    The vid isn't showing up for me, so I looked up Lawrence Krauss on Youtube. I'm guessing this is the 'Universe from Nothing' video? If that's it, the guy is entertaining, intelligent, and well-spoken. He gives an exellent explanation of his position. There are a lot of 'problems' with it, though, all of which boil down to the same 'problem': uncertainty. Basically, what I mean is that he gives a wonderful, great explanation of one possible explanation of several. Unfortunately, the observational/experimental science of today isn't advanced enough to falsify any of the different explanations. String Theory/Super String Theory/M-Theory is another, and may never be falsifiable (we're not sure yet). Yet another is that dark matter and dark energy actually are geometric features, rather than physical ones, meaning that dark matter is a result of the generalized curvature of space due to localized mass and dark energy is due to the expansionary nature of the fabric of space-time. Again, that one may never be falsifiable, we're not sure. I'm sure there are still others being kicked around that I don't know about. Believing it is fine, but saying you're 'pretty sure' (assuming you meant in an evidentiary sense and not a 'gut feeling' sense) may be dangerous, because the truth is that there are a lot of things in science much more sure than this.

    The whole postulation is based on the idea that virtual particles are real things, which they might be, but then again they might not be. The bigger problem with this is that, if this aspect of vacuums is real, one would expect larger things to be popping out of vacuums all the time, and lasting for a little while. Of course, with our limited understanding of things, that's not necessarily a problem, it just looks like it might be. Kinda like the virtual particles. :)

    Honestly, though, my only real problem with the guy was his frequent use of the 'theists claim to know everything' scarecrow. I call it a scarecrow simply because I've seen a lot of atheists attack theists with it, but I've never actually seen a theist claim it or use it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2010
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