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European parliament election

Discussion in 'Alley of Lingering Sighs' started by joacqin, May 30, 2009.

  1. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    It is coming up and despite these boards being dominated by Americans we Euros have no trouble butting in on their discussions so maybe we can get something going about this as well.

    What I find the most interesting is that it seems like the Piracyparty (the internet kind not the Somali kind) will get up to 15% of the Swedish votes. I am myself inclined to toss them a vote despite them lacking any kind of program or real politics except that one issue but I do think it is important enough and that a message gets sent that things need to be changed, that there needs to be real and open debate about these issues. Are there piracyparties with a chance of getting into parliment in other countries? Or it is just the extreme right thats taking giant strides again? Saw that Legia Nord are on the march in Italy and I know the Sweden Democrats (or as I call them: I am fat, bald, alcoholic and unemployed because those filthy foreigners are allowed to come here party) are polling just around the 4% limit.
     
  2. Morgoroth

    Morgoroth Just because I happen to have tentacles, it doesn'

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    I doubt any other country really even has a pirate party that's taken in any way seriously. 15% is quite a lot though, I'll be surprised if they actually pull that much off in the elections. As far as I know they don't even have a single seat in the Swedish parliament, and getting a seat in the EU parliament is usually a lot tougher for the smaller parties than in national elections. I suppose the backlash of the piratebay case seems to have given them a boost in support. We'll see how many of them actually turn up to vote though.

    I myself casted my vote allready and voted for the same center-right party I have voted for in the past elections. My only beef with them is that they sit in the conservative grouping of the EU-parliament which is full of people that are a lot more conservative than I'd prefer. The liberal group would have probably been the one I'd prefer but I really can't stand the parties that belong to it. It's pretty much business as usual in Finland with the big three (social democrats, national coalition party(center-right) and the center party(rural/center)) dominating. The populist Truefinns will probably take some strides forward but will at most get one seat. So no major changed in the balance of power around here.

    EDIT: According an article that I read today in Dagens Nyheter the Pirate Party is about to get about 8% support and possibly two seats in the EU parliament. Where did you get the 15% since it's quite a lot above the marigin of errors typical to these polls. The article I read was written today so the poll can't be very old.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2009
  3. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    The polls are all over the place, I chose the highest I had seen and last week I did see a poll giving them 15%. Here the EU election is the chance for new small parties to get seats. Easier to get into the EU parliment than the national one. Last election the EU negative June-list got over 10% in the EU election while I dont think they have ever gotten more than 1% in the national election.

    The pirate bay fake trial in combination with a bunch of laws that is designed to curtail freedom on the internet being passed has heigthened the awareness of the voters and a lot of people, especially young are quite upset. I am sure the Piracyparty will be seated, they have managed to get an "Obama light" grassroot campaign going.
     
  4. Morgoroth

    Morgoroth Just because I happen to have tentacles, it doesn'

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    A 6% deviation is huge though at this stage. Oh well I guess we'll see at the latest when the elections are held. While they might take a seat or two their influence in the parliament will be non-existant since I doubt they have a lot of people to align themselves with in Europe. The next national elections are probably going to be a lot more important to them and their future growth.
     
  5. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I am not so sure, I would not vote for them in the national election and I think that is a sentiment that is shared by many. I think what they are aiming and why many people vote is that they can be a wakeup call. If such a pure one-trick-pony can get in it must be a trick people feel quite strongly about. The established Swedish parties are already bending over backwards to modernize their stance on filesharing and the internet in general and I think a piracy party in the European parliment would really hit the point home that this is an issue that needs to be adressed and that the current political establishment is out of sync with the general populace.
     
  6. Iku-Turso Gems: 26/31
    Latest gem: Diamond


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    Politically I'm already voting for the green. How're they aligned in the left/right in the EU parliament? No idea. Nor does it matter, since ecological matters are important (to me) and my single vote's basically a personal statement.

    Otherwise only one MP in our puny country's parliament has a stand which is in line with my preferences about not restricting the use of the web too much and he's on the eco-party...
     
  7. Morgoroth

    Morgoroth Just because I happen to have tentacles, it doesn'

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    To be quite frank I doubt they will even be noticed on the big stage. There are plenty of far right whacko parties and some from the far left. And they have more than one or two seats. Amongst the nearly 800 MEP's two have a very slight chance of getting noticed let alone raising up any issues. Practically issues are raised withing respective political groups and the pirate party would probably join one of the smaller ones if they even join one. In which case their chances of getting any attention outside Sweden or pushing through/blocking major legistlation are slim.

    If they want to get anything done then they need to start nationally, acquire a position in the cabinet, push through national legistlation to legalize piracy and then hit for the European stage. This current strategy leaves them at a position where they are simply ignored by the rest.

    @Iku

    The greens belong quite rightfully to the green group. Oh and by the MP I assume you mean Jyrki Kasvi.
    He's a smart guy with some good viewpoints on the issue but can't say I fully support everything he stands for. ;)
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2009
  8. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    They do not need to "do" anything in the way you mean Morgoroth. The fact that they are there might enough to scare the big groups into acting before they start to lose a real amount of voters.

    If I decide I want to vote on a real party I would too vote for the Greens. They have really cleaned up their act lately and gone from an idealistic semi-wacky party to a party with real plans and worthwhile ideology. They pretty much share the piracy party's stance on copyright issues and filesharing as well so there wouldn't be much difference there. The vote for the pure piracy party though will hopefully be a wakeup call that these issues need to answered and the current policies is one that will not work in the long run.
     
  9. Morgoroth

    Morgoroth Just because I happen to have tentacles, it doesn'

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    Their scare factor will still remain in the large shadow of the rising extreme right. Like I said, I doubt anyone will pay any attention to them, except perhaps as a curiosity right after the elections.
     
  10. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I am not so sure about that, I can already see the established Swedish parties adjusting their stance on this issue all across the line. I think very very few people feel as strongly against filesharing and for the protection of the current copyright laws as for example Taluntain for them to be a relevent voting block while there are many many many who strongly feel that things need to change. This means that no party will really lose any votes by modernizing their position. An established party deciding to adapt a far right wing stance on immigration might gain a truckload of votes but they will lose a fair amount as well.

    Raise enough ruckus, get enough media attention and even the big old leviathans of parties will see that they are losing votes and support because of an issue that they would lose very little if they started to support it. To solve this issue we need to work internationally. There are treaties to be amended and we will even need to rework part of the UN human rights charter to be able to handle the changes that technology has brought upon the world. A national powerbase is worthless, you need to go international from the get go because no lone country can do anything on this issue.
     
  11. Morgoroth

    Morgoroth Just because I happen to have tentacles, it doesn'

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    I think people in general don't feel very strongly about filesharing. I think people accept some filesharing but I doubt the majority supports legistlation to free up filesharing completely. I'm going to have to disagree with you on this, but I think the fact that Sweden is the only country where this subject is even discussed speaks volumes. I am also not aware that any of the major parties even there would have supported legalizing piracy.

    As for criticism of the copyright laws, there's a lot of legitime criticism towards them coming from smaller parties such as the greens, but that and the complete laissez faire attitude of the pirate party are miles apart from each other. If and when the pirate party gains seats they will be right there with the hardcore commies and the extreme right representing radical thought as a very small minority in the parliament.
     
  12. Shoshino

    Shoshino Irritant Veteran

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    well... I recieved my voting card... though its already shreaded
     
  13. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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  14. Montresor

    Montresor Mostly Harmless Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder

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    Sorry for taking this completely out of context but I think the reason Sweden is the country where this is discussed so vividly is because the trial took place in Sweden. The matter would certainly be on the agenda everywhere if there was a controversial trial dealing with piracy and copyright issues. :)

    On the topic of the elections, I will vote (if I care to vote) on one of the "Denmark out of the EU" movements. IMO the EU is a typical political project: Over budget, past the deadline, failed in all its major objectives, and the politicians are regularly back to ask for more money, more time, and more power to fulfil all the objectives they have consistently failed to achieve.
     
  15. Merlanni

    Merlanni ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    The problem with Europe is that most people do not get it. They only listen to the negative things. If you think a few layers deep for a time and put prejudice against the other medium, small and liliput countries aside You will realize that there is no other way. A United countries of Europe will be a fact, and it is what we make op it.

    All that talk about we are better off ourselves is so stupid. The Netherlands were formed from several small pieces of land and it is a lot better with 12 provinces in stead of 12 small bickering blots of land each whit a flag.

    Some mourn for the time of our previous currency claiming that it raised prices. The currency itself in not to blame, but the middlepeople who made a buck out of it. If a bottle of soda cost 1,20 just across the border, and here 0,90 there is a difference. When our price is raised to 1.10 it is not the currency that is the reason, but open market. A populair dessert was raised in price with the introduction of the euro, now it is at the level of the initial price even whit years of inflation? How do you reason that?

    It is impossible to regulate the invironment when a major river is passing at least 3 countries. How do you regulate noise at an airfield mere meters at the other side of a border? You pay a euro for a road hundreds of miles away from your doorstep and complain about it while it gives you 2 euros back in trade. The list goes on and on.

    Some people stand days in line, or walk for dozens of miles, some die trying to vote, some never vote. And what do most of us do, they do not vote because they do not feel like it. If you do not vote, shut up for the next couple of years since you just forfeited your say in matters. I vote, so my group wins.

    We compare Europe with our own government. That is a mistake. The playing field is not the same, the rules differ, the agenda is not always in our favor. Perhaps we need a new war?
     
  16. Morgoroth

    Morgoroth Just because I happen to have tentacles, it doesn'

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    I disagree. The pirate party has been discussed and it has had a decent popularity before. It did not fare well in the last national elections in Sweden but it has been polling numbers that might give it a seat or two in the next elections. In Finland a similar site (not nearly the same size though) was shut down a few years ago. No such discussion emerged then. I'm inclined to believe that this phenomenon is pretty much restricted to Sweden. Also The Pirate Bay is pretty much unique in its high profile, I doubt other search engines in other countries could ever muster similar media attention.
     
  17. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    [​IMG] For me it's simple: the Socialist Party represents almost everything i want done in the EU government. I checked their political agenda, and my only criticism is that they don't want to address the post-war pension problem. The SP's general goal in the EU is to deregulate the system as long as it is dominated by the interests of banks, investors, stock markets and companies, instead of representing the people's interests:sosad:.

    Holland is also significantly underrepresented. We pay heavily for our membership, but we are alotted less votes than our population would merit:nolike:.

    Although i do appreciate the programs of other left parties like the greens, their main focuses aren't quite my priorities (climate change is not uninportant, but that's not all they want done), and their policies leave too much room for system abuse. Equal rights is great, but let's not go overboard; before you know, it will become a free-for-all:spin::hippy:.

    As for the piracy interest; they make no mention of it. But by preserving dutch law over blanket european law, I think they're doing their bit to protect us;).
     
  18. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Blanket European law is Dutch law. There is no separation. If they make no mention of filesharing or copyright it means that they are happy with the direction we are going now with police powers given to private corporations to hunt down and harass suspected filesharers and a whole bunch of other really important issues. This is why I am voting for the piracy party, to try to make people aware. As things are going now we will probably have a locked and controlled internet within a few year where you have to decide beforehand which sites to suscribe to and as the big media cats pretty please if it is ok for you to go there. The established political parties around the world have had no clue about these issues and the people they have asked for advice have been big business because they seemed like the people who knew what was going on. So unless we do something now, try to do something, in the near future we will get the big business (in combination with paranoid security services) version of the internet where everything is controlled, notified and of course, paid for.

    I am surprised that this is such a non-issue elsewhere, it is a pretty darn huge issue here. I think I saw some French demonstraters after France passed a law that could ban filesharers from the internet and they are now trying to implement that as EU law. Download a song and you get your ISP cut off.
     
  19. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    "Laws designed to curtail freedom"? Oh, please... freedom to steal? You don't have that "freedom" in any normal country. It's natural that once you make people accustomed to taking something (anything) without paying for it or fearing any repercussions, it's the easiest thing in the world to herd them into an angry mob that'll start blabbering about how their "freedoms" or "rights" will be taken away from them if they won't be able to steal unpunished any more.

    Oddly enough, no country has a party advocating the "freedom" to steal from the rich yet. How they let those piracy clowns into the parliament is the bigger question here.

    The only thing I feel strongly about as far as file sharing goes is that the people who are trying to convince the world that it's got nothing to do with plain stealing are only fooling themselves. Sweden with its pirate party is on the road to becoming a joke country, like Italy has been for decades under Berlusconi's reign.

    I mean, duh, which political party that could proclaim a form of thievery as not stealing wouldn't win votes? Everyone wants to be able to get something for nothing. The only real question is, how this can be tolerated on the EU level. What's next? Pedophile party in the EU parliament? Murderers party? Someone needs to step on the brakes here before this idiocy escalates any further.
     
  20. Merlanni

    Merlanni ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Never have missed a vote in my life.
     
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