Education: Is it even Worth It?

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It's been over a year since I completed graduate school, earning my law degree, and passing the bar to allow me to practice law. Amassing a mountain of student loan debt in the process, with few available jobs, and even less opportunity because of a sluggish economy...I've come to this question:

Is education worth the cost?

Sure, I enjoy being in the top 10% of the population as far as educational accomplishments. I am making more annually than I have ever before, despite the fact that the job I have is contractual and therefore, subject to the whim of my employer. But the reality is I am far lower than I expected to be financially and professionally as a result of obtaining an advanced degree.

Why didn't I join the military? Become a tradesman? Instead of spending 4 years in undergrad, and another 4 in law school. Only to be buried under monstrous loan debt, and stymied by a weak economy?

What do you think? Is education overrated? Do you really think you need college/and or an advanced degree?

 

I'm in the same situation as you. I'm under contract with the DoD. However, if there isn't any work, then I don't get to keep my position. I also have an advanced degree (but not in law - I have my master's in chemistry).

To answer your question though, I'd say ultimately, yes, education is worth it. Without an advanced degree the chances of really going far financially are greatly diminished. However, you won't see the benefits for probably another 10 years.

Professionals don't make that much more than anyone else when they first start off - it's just that they max out at a much higher pay. You'll be comfortable by the time you're middle age - hang in there for now.

 

Edit: (I didn't see your post their Aldeth- I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, it may indeed be worth it to continue in a chosen field, but those same results can be achieved, with effort and patience, to my mind in a far more preferable -and even easier- way). End Edit.

No it's not, the education, like every other system we are led to beleive we must rely on, is shot to hell.

Ask yourself what you want to achieve- if it's just material gain there are, as you have noted, far more profitable fields, with a deal less stress. If you care about what it is that you are doing, then you should note that the majority of fields entered into after attaining a degree are either corrupt, or contribute to corrupt causes. If there is something else you are after, then forget the presitiege and the wealth, and go after whatever it is that will give you (or perhaps allow you to give) that thing itself, efficiently, relying on your own work to get it instead of working towards something else you don't want simply to achieve the same thing in a roundabout way.

I went to University; I didn't find it worthwhile, even without factoring in the costs.

Do what it is you want to do, do want it is you feel you should be doing, don't do what you believe is the best option if you cannot logically or instinctually, agree. Ask yourself why it is you have been doing these things and then do that thing itself.

I have come to the conclusion that many of these institutions are not even able teachers, let alone among the best- you could learn more simply by studying the things themself, if you can keep yourself on track (which I often cannot). Even on the best outlook, five thousand dollars a year is a little exorbitant for a social club.

I cannot offer much advice to you now as it stands, because I do not know if you are unhappy in your current field, or simply your current position. It is a shame you could not come to this realisation before you had completed your degree, but that cannot be helped. Remember, those debts do not always need to be fulfilled. If you feel you have not gotten what you paid for, then refuse to pay, there are many circumstances where this is a viable option, if you move or earn a lower salary for example (being a law graduate I'm sure you know all these ). If you feel you are obliged to meet your debt then you should by all means do so, but do not feel you are then likewise obliged to continue working in the field you have purchased.

My experience with this society, this world, has left me feeling like Drizzt in Menzoberanzan. A quick death by the sword can be favourable to the slow death of the soul, the crushing of ones spirit.

These things, these degrees, these jobs, are a distraction, a slow detour, a long means to a simple ends, nothing more.

 

Looks like you're asking from a strictly economic standpoint. Ignoring all other factors then, the answer is clearly that there is a strong correlation between higher education and increased income.

I didn't want to spend much time looking it up so I went with the first study I found - a 1992 study. According to it those with a college degree average earnings of 60,321, those with a high school degree average 27,225, and those without a high school degree average earnings of 10,236. Those with college degrees average wealth of 353,270, those with high school diplomas average wealth of 136,923, and those without a high school diploma avearge wealth is 68,275.

Obviously almost tripling your wealth with a college degree would be worth it. I understand that you're concerned with your debt. We don't know what that debt is but it is still almost assuredly worth it as long as you are an average attorney. The median and mean for first year attorney's in 2000 was over 50,000. Those numbers jump into the 70,000 range for those with 5 years of practice and the 90-100,000 range once there are 10 years under their belt.

Assume however you inexplicably stay in the 60k range. Now, compare that to another job making 30-40k as an electrician (sure there are some that make more but we're assuming you stay at the bottom end as an attorney so it wouldn't be fair to compare total apples and oranges; 30-40k as an electrician without any college is pretty good). It may seem like over the course of a few years you'd be better off not having the student loans. However, look at it over the course of your working life - say 30 years at least. You will earn 600-800k more as an attorney and that assumes you are the median/mean first year attorney who never advances.

I know your debt isn't approaching that. Law school is typically a 3 year proposition so even assuming you went to one of the most expensive 30k a year schools - yes, from an economic standpoint, you're better off.

Of course there are other factors so as how much you enjoy the work, the hours, the stress level, the meaningfulness of your work to you etc. Those factors can only be answered by you.

I understand how in your present situation the debt may be discouraging but you're a new attorney and you've a lot of years ahead of you.

 

I know...I'm just in a whiny mood. I want to travel more...And I can't right now!

 

Yes, education is worth it, but the level to which it's truly necessary can depend on your field.

My profession, for example, and I'm sure ArtEChoke would agree with this, cares more about the work you can do than where you came from. The career I'm referring to is Graphic Design, Web Design, etc.

Most employers, especially the good ones, only care about one thing: your portfolio; the collection of art that best represents you as an artist and what you're capable of. For all they care you could have attended the Ass-Scratcher's Community College of Art - or even not graduated high school - but as long as you can show you're capable of killer work, you're gonna get the job. On the flip side, if you graduated from RISD (Rhode Island School of Design), the most prestigious art school in the US and one of the best in the world, yet can't draw a stick figure without a how-to book, you can look forward to a smashing career flipping burgers.

Having the degree certainly helps, but in my field, it's your talent that counts. That said, I think my education thus far has given me a toe up on my competition, if for no other reason than it says to employers I was willing to dedicate my time to serious study and high grades.

 

For me I am getting a degree simply because it opens up so many more oppurtunities. The few talents I have is nothing you can get a nice and interesting job by without honing them. I also enjoy widening my experiences and my mind, learning new stuff. With a certified diploma and a license for atleast a decent job I also find it a bit more comfortable to go out on adventure and travel and such cause I know I have something to fall back on. I havent however spent as long as you have Bel on your education and nor do I plan on, nor do I think I will have as big a debt.

 

As any job hunter will tell you, your education rapidly becomes less relevant to your advancement than your experience. This change is probably slower in fields like law and medicine than engineering, but it's my general observation that after your first job or so, employers stop caring about where you went to school and how well you did. As long as you meet the minimum requirements, all they want to see is the kind of results you're able to produce.

But having advanced degrees is always useful for breaking the ice at cocktail parties, or in Trivial Pursuit.

 

Have any openings? But most of my written material is in "Whatnots"

 

Yea, getting a degree. My LLM is due in three years unless there be an unpleasant surprise. In a year, I could get an LLB, but I can go straight to LLM without the bachelor's as well. It's easier than it could otherwise have been, as I passed my entry exams well enough to qualify to the top that get the best education in law available here (maybe except for the ancient uni in Cracow) without paying for that. Oh well, not exactly without paying, since my family pays 43% freaking income tax, but I'm not charged for my studies.

I'm not sure if I made the right choice. Certainly, I'm not going to waste the time already spent on studying law. I'm not getting out without a degree. However, I could have taken archaelogy instead. I also passed their exam and got the third best score in the whole year of candidates for Archaeology (one of the two or three departments of our uni that don't suck - contrary, our Archaelogy Institute is in the world's top of the tops). Would have taken Mesopothamia. Mostly Summerian, some Accadian, probably Summerian if I had to choose. Rome as the second spec, just to continue the classic education I've got so far somehow. However, archaelogy doesn't really get you a job. And Saddam was in power. If I went there (perhaps still possible), I wouldn't leave without a doctorate. Most probably, I'd strive to remain there for good. Now, however, taking on archaeology would prolong the time spent on my education considerably. Need to get a job. Need to get a life.

A doctorate in archaelogy takes two years of studies. Perhaps some additional time for gathering materials for the thesis. In law, it takes four years. Am I going to spend another four, after the master's five, on studying law? That's just not damned right. I would die of boredom.

Perhaps I'll end up studying law and classics. Classics as the logical continuation of my education so far.

It's worth it. But when it comes to difficult decisions... matters change. Nothing appears so simple anymore.

 

That sounds like a yes.

I don't know about you, but I'd much rather be making $70k/year and be a few grand in debt than be working fast food at 6.50/hour.

The point of this? Yes, education is worth it. Personally, though, I'm not an advocate of going deep into debt unless you have no other choice (there's tons of free money out there for both grads and undergrads).

 

Seems like a tough call to me.From personal experience it doesn't seem worth it.

I did not go to college my wife has her four year degree.I make more than she does by almost ten thousand a year and have no debt from school.
Her college debt is what is keeping us from moving into a better home.

I know this is probably not the norm but this is my experience.

Although if I had my four year degree I could go into teaching for a while to see if I liked it.

 

I assume you mean "formal education". I believe you can teach yourself as well as anyone else can assuming you have the drive, the appropriate material, and good study practices. This doesn't come with any guarantees, though.

When you study at a college or university your skills are tested and graded. From these grades a potential employer can gauge how competent you are in various areas, and make a more informed decision about your skill level and whether or not you are appropriate for a particular role.

I could have learnt a lot of what I learnt at uni from books... no... wait... I DID learn a lot of what I learnt at uni from books. The teaching ranged from "this guy is the best teacher I have ever had" to "OMG I'm not going to the lectures anymore". It didn't really matter. I did my work and graduated with a very nice looking transcript and a shiny medal. My first employers took one look at my academic record and said "how much do you want?" My education was "worth it" in that the nice big stamp of approval someone had given me proved valuable.

I have to agree with dmc, though. After a couple of years in the workforce, potential employers are far more concerned with your work history than your academic record. The last few job applications I've put in (some years ago now) still requested copies of my transcript though, even though they required 5+ years of experience. I guess some people still care.

 

Here, they sometimes ask for highschool certificate apart from uni papers.

 

I have probably learned more since I completed my post-secondary education, but I feel that the time spent in college was worthwhile, even if nothing more than to enrich my life...where else in the world can you learn differential equations, Keynesian economics, and how to make a beer bong .

 

The thought of working a dead end job for a pittance of money seriuosly wants to make me shudder. Me personally, I would be happy with the dept.

Is tertiary education important and worth the debt? Hell yeah! University was one of the places that opened my mind to the rest of the world and provided me with opportunities with which to better myself and my prospects toward the future.

However, the topic leader does have a valid point when he asks "is it worth it". I suppose for some people, tertiary education is not worth it. It however comes down to how marketable you are as person. Tertiary education is but adding to that marketability.

 

Is education worth it? Horses for courses, mate. It's not worth spending 1000s getting a mediocre degree in a crap subject, but getting a good degree in a field that will enhance your employment prospects is well worth consideration.

The UK government has set a target of 50% admission to universities. How dumb is that? The country already has more than enough English graduates but who the hell is going to fix our pipes?

It certainly doesn't automatically follow that if you have a degree you get a well paid job. You need both a bachelor's degree and a postgraduate qualification to become a teacher or social worker but neither are notably well paid professions.

 

Well, I am actually learning a profession.

My drea<m used to be of getting a doctorate and so forth and so forth, upper secondary followed by university and so forth.

Now... Well, I am leárning how to design those pipes and how to make 3D models and other design-y stuff. And I know I can still get a doctorate on a subject related to my "work"

But the fact is... I have time. I can graduate, get a job. Start studying on the side for the degrees. As a result, it may take a good while to get there, but hey, I won't be a starving student on the way.

Education in itself is not important... it is the learning. I think.