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Does Wis & Cha really matter for a cleric or druid?

Discussion in 'Baldur's Gate 2: Enhanced Edition' started by Eyebreaker7, May 6, 2014.

  1. Eyebreaker7

    Eyebreaker7 Someone clean my litter box ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    It seems like they don't for 2nd edition here.

    druid:
    [IWis score[/I] of 13
    Cha 15!?!??? Why does a druid need a min score of 15?

    cleric doesn't seem to have ANY min scores?
    none!??!!

    Why does a druid have a minimum score for Cha and not a cleric? And why so high? Hell the cleric doesn't have any min scores?

    Or what about Paladins? with min stats:

    Str = 12
    Wis = 13
    Cha = 17

    And a Stalker:
    Str = 13
    Dex = 13
    Con = 14
    Wis = 14

    Some odd minimum scores for these classes.
    Any ideas why the minimums are there?
    I know that a 17 for a Paladin is for his charmingness (is that even a real word?) and leadership. But what about all the other minimums for all the other classes listed?
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2014
  2. Tarrasque

    Tarrasque Whoever said Paladins had to be charismatic? ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    A lot of the minimums are there from a pen & paper viewpoint. Baldurs gate does it backwards from the p&p game.

    In the p&p game you roll stats then choose your character class - the minimums are therefore there to ensure that the rarer classes stay rare. All these minimums do in baldurs gate is ensure that characters with them actually will have better stats before rerolls than characters without.
     
  3. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    In first edition (where all this started) the primary classes had no minimums ... unless you count negative effects of low primary abilities ... but sub-classes had minimums. Ranger and paladin were sub-classes of fighter, druid was a sub-class of cleric, assassin was a sub-class of thief, and illusionist was a sub-class of magic user. The thought was the requirements would be tougher to get the specialized sub-class. Rangers had to survive in the wilderness, paladins and druids were usually leaders in their communities, illusions took greater concentration to maintain, and assassins were just bad-asses. Not all the minimum abilities made sense to me but then this is a fantasy game.

    The minimums carried over to 2nd edition (at least initially) and then to BG.
     
  4. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    PnP uses Prerequisite Stas and Prime Requisite Stats per class. Pre-Req is the minimum needed. A Str of 9 for A Fighter for example. Meeting the Prime-Req standard gave a & bonus to XP gained. Prime-Req also dictated what stat levels were needed to Dual-Class. The Core classes(F, M, T, C) do have a minimum requirement of 9 for their Prime-Req stat. I believe the Elite Classes(Pally, Ranger, etc....) had mutliple Prime Req stats, depending on the edition or supplement you are/were utilizing.
     
  5. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Ah, yes ... I forgot about the 9's in the primary stat (it was never an issue). I didn't list the requirements for dualling -- at least 15 in the primary stat(s) of your old class and at least 17 in the primary stat of your new class -- the logic as I remember was only an exceptional person was able to succeed at two classes. I always though it would be better to have a minimum intelligence or wisdom for dualling. But then I also thought the xp bonus based on primary stat was stupid -- it was done right in PST.
     
  6. Eyebreaker7

    Eyebreaker7 Someone clean my litter box ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Ok. But why does a druid need a higher cha score than a cleric? I would think neither of them needs one?
     
  7. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Druids were leaders and were held on par with nobles -- according to legend a druid could stop a battle between armies by just their presence. It would take some serious charisma to stop a battle.
     
  8. Eyebreaker7

    Eyebreaker7 Someone clean my litter box ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    I never knew that. Thanks T2Bruno.
     
  9. Eyebreaker7

    Eyebreaker7 Someone clean my litter box ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    How are these stats for a werewolf?

    str 18
    dex 18
    con 16
    int 10
    wis 14
    cha 15

    ?? Anything I should change?
     
  10. Yoshimo's Heart Gems: 13/31
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    Wait are you playing a shifter in BG2? If you are yes I would change those stats. I would lower str first. You need str for two things.

    1) Weapon Damage

    2) Carrying capacity

    AS a shifter you should not be doing 1 unless you are shifted which automatically brings you up to 19 str. As for carrying capacity since you cannot wear armor you don't need a high str to succeed.

    I would boost int to 10 just to be sure there are no negative effects and also that could be an extra hit from a mind flayer before you die (don't undervalue that).

    You could boost your cha to 18. Yes you can wear a ring but with this you don't have to which is nice and you are so close already. Wisdom being higher can give you more bonus spells whcih is nice earlier in the game though eventually it loses its luster. In the same vein dex has the same issue. Its biggest bonus for you is the boost to ranged attacks in normal form. Its AC bonus is sadly meaningless for you since when you are in normal form your AC is likely bad enough that even the -4 won't save you (and in ToB will be effectively useless) and when you are shifted it will be overwritten by the forms dex.

    Using the same numbers I would probably go with

    Str-10
    dex-18
    con-16
    int-10
    wis-16
    cha-18

    Using this line if you prefer some more carrying capacity you can take away from wisdom but otherwise I like this set of stats better. Also remember with so many str boosting spells and equipment you can find in the game low str is easy to fix but low other scores cost more (or can't really be boosted at all or require important item slots). The most important girdles in the game in gneral are str boosters that is not the case for the other ability score boosters which require ring, bracer, or weapon slots which are far more valuable.

    I kept dex high so that you can be reliable at range which can make lower levels more fun and makes you slightly more survivable in SOA where bracers and your dex might save you a few hits (even if against the bigger threats and in ToB where it will help you little).
     
  11. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    You mean Shapeshifter? Shifting to Werewolf/Greater Werewolf Form automatically sets your Str, Dex and Con to different values so you don't need high STR. Anything from 10-16 should be fine. 18 Dex and 16 Con doesn't hurt. Intelligence affects a few dialogue options iirc, but anything from 10-18 is fine. Max Wisdom. Even Shapeshifters are best off using their human form and casting most of the time and only shifting once you've successfully removed/disabled all major threats.
    Cha should be 15 or 18, for simplicity.

    If I got a similar roll on my Shapeshifter I'd use
    str 10
    dex 18
    con 16
    int 10
    wis 18
    cha 18

    Edit: Ninja'd by Yohimo's Heart
    I'd still recommend maxing Wisdom though. It affects your spellcasting and the benefits of having 18 base wisdom become apparent once you hit 19+ from various quests/items.
     
  12. Yoshimo's Heart Gems: 13/31
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    I would have recommended an 18 wisdom but with the current stats he could not keep the 18 dex. I figured that the dex would lead to less overall frustration than the 18 wisdom would help (a few extra spells in SoA are nice but not a game changer granted neither is 18 dex).
     
  13. Eyebreaker7

    Eyebreaker7 Someone clean my litter box ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    What if I drop the Dex to 16 and raise Wisdom to 18? The Dex shouldn't really matter because of the werewolf/greater werewolf forms?

    I'm not sure what mod it's from but when I shape shift into a werewolf/greater werewolf I get "paw icons" that act just like weapons as far as equipping and un-equiping. Or choosing one of them or another weapon in the other hand. What is really sweet about it is that you can cast spells regardless of being shape shifted or just a reg person. I'm pretty sure the only Mod I have is the G3 tweekpack. Anyone else know what I'm talking about? Lol.

    ---------- Added 0 hours, 25 minutes and 39 seconds later... ----------

    I just re-rolled and got more points :)
    How about:

    str 15
    dex16
    con 16
    int 10
    wis 18
    cha 16

    The dex is going to drop to 16 so I'm making it that anyway.

    Keep in mind that I will always be in werewolf (greater when I get it) because of the way the mod works :) That doesn't mean I wouldn't be "realistic" about my stats. Meaning I don't want to make str 10 so I can put the points into something else just because I know I'll get a higher score when I "shift".

    Just to let anyone know (those reading that have no idea what the stats would be when "shifted" the werewolf form stats are"

    str 19
    dex 16
    con 15

    The greater werewolf stats are:

    str 21
    dex 20
    con 25
     
  14. Yoshimo's Heart Gems: 13/31
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    I would take your str down to 13 and boost cha to 18. Dex at 16 is ok as really it is more for ranged attacks for you.

    I am not a fan of that particular mod but if you want to use that mod I would put a point into two weapon fighting (or more if you have a mod that allows that) and put the claw in your off hand. It will make a real threat in melee. The lesser claw will give you I think a total of +2 attacks if you put it into your off hand and the greater claw will give you +3 total attacks. Brutal.

    Why I don't care for it is that you can avoid all tactical concerns of the shapeshifter. There is only one reason to be in normal from with that mod and that is ranged weapon attacks which will be relatively rare for you. This means that you will be werewolf all the time which means you have no real weakness from the kit considering that the werewolf has decent AC. Also I recall that the regeneration is too good as well. It is powerful though so while I don't care for it it will make you more powerfull.
     
  15. Eyebreaker7

    Eyebreaker7 Someone clean my litter box ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Holy garlic breath Batman! That is just wrong. Lol.
    I never thought about that. WoW!
    Thanks. Much appreciated. :cool:
     
  16. Yoshimo's Heart Gems: 13/31
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    And remember that all but one of those extra attacks apply to your main hand so equip a nasty weapon there.
     
  17. Eyebreaker7

    Eyebreaker7 Someone clean my litter box ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    How about Spectral Brand? :banana:
     
  18. Yoshimo's Heart Gems: 13/31
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    A fine choice. The extra cold damage will help you penetrate stone skins.
     
  19. Eyebreaker7

    Eyebreaker7 Someone clean my litter box ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    It will? How? Does it just ignore the SS or does it help bring it down faster?
     
  20. Yoshimo's Heart Gems: 13/31
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    The advanced version deals cold damage which will penetrate the stone skins. All weapons that deal elemental damage have this benefit. This is important because that small amount of damage can stop spell casting if you are lucky.
     
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