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DMing: Yugoloth vs. Devil

Discussion in 'Dungeons & Dragons + Other RPGs' started by Ilmater's Suffering, Aug 24, 2007.

  1. Ilmater's Suffering Gems: 21/31
    Latest gem: Pearl


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    Out of curiosity how do you draw clear distinctions between in the inherent nature of NE yulogoths against LE devils?

    Devils are structured in rank yes, but yulogoths are too, following a undisputed single ruler "General of Ghenna" and follwoing the rules of the Ultroloth on the battlefield.

    Devils also don't hold laws sacred and only follow them so long as they face punishment and, aside from the former Arch Duke Geryon, they show no semblance of loyalty and betray each other whenever possible.

    There's always the fact that devils keep their word, but that hardly seems like a real way to draw distinction. Yes yulogoths are suppose to be the more selfish and greedy creatures in the multiverse, but that's a hard way to distinguish yulogoths from devils and demons who are also incredibly selfish and greedy.

    I'd just like to see how you do such differences when displaying an individual devil vs. a yulogoth (I know the theoretical differences, but they've, I feel, never been enough to create a convincing difference between the two groups in terms of personality). I guess this stems from what I feel is a poor distinction between the exemplars of lawful evil and neutral evil who very different from the exemplars of chaotic evil (demons are always easy to do as they're often straightforward, implusive, unnecessarily violent and cowardly).

    My shining example is Arch Duke Mammon, Lord of the Third Layer. Lawful evil, but all he does is lie, betray and then prostrate himself in from of others when the first two things he does gets him in trouble (the so called "Turncoat's Turncoat" according to the Book of Vile Darkness). How is there anything lawful about that? Mammon hardly seems different from Grazz't in my eyes who is a chaotic evil Demon Prince (as both are very intelligent about their actions). When all of Hell fails to trust you...
     
  2. Oaz Gems: 29/31
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    Yeah, I'm not fond of the whole "we-pay-lip-service to rules and regulations" business of the devils, since that strikes me as Chaotic Evil masquerading as Lawful Evil rather than genuine Lawful Evil. I imagine Lawful Evil would resemble something more like a bureaucracy geared towards the total end of causing misery and suffering, with individuals at all levels generally being loyal to the system and its causes. Presumably, Lawful Good types aren't constantly scheming Machiavelli-like and willing to switch alliances if it means a more convenient way to fight evil and promote happiness.

    Lawful Evil as Nazis and fascists, in order words, rather than cutthroat lawyers.
     
  3. Gnarfflinger

    Gnarfflinger Wiseguy in Training

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    My understanding of Neutral Evil itself is that they have more patience than Chaotic Evil, and thus will work within the rules when if fits their ends. They lack the patience, however, of Lawful Evil, and thus are quick to abandon the system when they see an advantage to behaving as such.

    Therefore, Devils will usually make a deal and bide their time until it becomes time for them to collect their advantage and then collect. Yugoloths will Abide the terms of a deal as long as its in their best interests, then they will stab you, take what they can and leave you dead. Tanari will do as they please anyway, and will simply screw with you for no reason whatsoever...
     
  4. Morgoroth

    Morgoroth Just because I happen to have tentacles, it doesn'

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    Well I don't really know that well the 3rd edition stuff about yugoloths but in 2nd edition they were hardly united under single rulership, more often than not Yugoloths were mercenaries offering their services to devils and demons alike for personal gain and betraying whenever it became convenient. They even fight amongst themselves now and then but not quite as much as the tanar'ri.
     
  5. Ilmater's Suffering Gems: 21/31
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    As of 3e yugoloths outside of Gehenna are predominately mercenaries in the Blood War. However even those fighting on opposite sides of the Blood War are "technically" under the rule of the General of Gehenna, but yugoloths outside Gehenna inclined to do whatever (the are after all the most selfish creatures side from Mammon in the multiverse). Maybe that's the difference between devils and yugoloths. Devils scheme to usurp their masters when out of their master's sight, yugoloths merely ignore their masters once they're out of their master's sight. That is hierarchy is something yugoloth are willing to tolerate structure, but it is unimportant enough that they can ignore it. Devils on the other hand can only think about their particular status with their society's structure and it is reflected by that they seem to constantly be thinking of their place in that society.
     
  6. BlckDeth Gems: 7/31
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    You pretty much hit the nail on the head, IMO. I would say that Yugoloths are united under a central leader, and are fairly mindless in that sense. Devils, on the other hand, are all fiercely independent beurocrats; devoted towards a common cause, yet would like nothing better than to rule themselves. Thus, all the backstabbing.

    That's what I've gathered from the Manual of The Planes and the Book of Vile Darkness, anyway.
     
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