1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

DHS employee put on leave after wearing 'offensive' costume

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Taluntain, Nov 8, 2007.

  1. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2000
    Messages:
    23,475
    Media:
    494
    Likes Received:
    538
    Gender:
    Male
    [​IMG] Story Highlights:
    • Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff directs employee to take leave
    • Man in prison outfit, dreadlocks and darkened skin make-up came to party
    • Party host was Julie Myers, head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement
    • She and other judges at first gave man praise for costume's "originality"
    Source.

    Gah, can you say HYPOCRISY?!

    Also, what the hell? A black man in a convict suit is offensive, but a white one wouldn't be? This is wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start... bloody PC! :mad:
     
  2. Spellbound

    Spellbound Fleur de Mystique Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    1,273
    Likes Received:
    8
    Gender:
    Female
    Well this is the epitome of ridiculousness....and, I agree, white skin would have been ok? This society is so ultra sensitive over what they perceive as racial issues -- it's like a hair-trigger set to go off. So bend over Ms Myers and join the crowd.
     
  3. Drew

    Drew Arrogant, contemptible, and obnoxious Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,605
    Media:
    6
    Likes Received:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    It looked to me like the white guy in the convict suit went in black face...which, to be fair, would be racially charged.
     
  4. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2000
    Messages:
    23,475
    Media:
    494
    Likes Received:
    538
    Gender:
    Male
    What I meant was, if the guy was black and came dressed in a convict suit (admittedly unlikely), no one would say anything. If they guy was white and didn't paint his face, no one would even give it a second look. If the guy was black and painted his face white, I'm willing to bet no one would accuse him of being offensive. So it's just a white guy who can't dress up as a black con without getting fired. As if there was no such thing as black cons or if black cons were such an outrageous idea that you could get fired for bringing it up.

    It's supposed to be a costume party, for Pete's sake! So everyone was supposed to make sure they didn't paint their face? I mean, heaven forbid that a black guy would paint his face white, think of all the mime outrage! :rolleyes:

    Absurdity aside, I can understand how this could have been perceived as insensitive, but more than likely it wasn't even intentional. I'd say give the guy a warning if you have to. But fire him? For this? Good grief... will anyone over there dare put on a red nose again for fear of grievously insulting the professional clown community? You can label pretty much every costume offensive to someone.
     
  5. AMaster Gems: 26/31
    Latest gem: Diamond


    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2000
    Messages:
    2,495
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    50
    Now, now, Tal, don't you know that PC is a liberal-only phenomena? The DHS is run by so-called conservatives, ergo it isn't PC. :p

    To be fair, whites using makeup to, um, look black is very racially charged. It's where the phrase 'Jim Crow' comes from, after all.
     
  6. Spellbound

    Spellbound Fleur de Mystique Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    1,273
    Likes Received:
    8
    Gender:
    Female
    Ok... I will try to be as polite as I can when I say this....but -- here's my view on it:

    Blacks scream the racist card when they view other races singling them out for whatever reason -- essentially treating them differently than everyone else. But, in fact, they go to great lengths themselves to ostracize THEMSELVES, by separating themselves from the rest, wanting special priviledges, special notice, special commendations, etc.

    At my university last week, they elected a Miss Black NSU. Do we have a Miss White NSU? or a Miss Hispanic NSU? Hell no. Are black women barred from the regular Miss NSU contest? Absolutely not. And there are any number of examples of this -- Black History Month. Do we have a White History Month? Hell no. Also...at our school, in the cafeteria....they isolate themselves from the whites ON PURPOSE. They are loud, make scenes....when other students are just trying to eat in peace. It seems it's ok for them to use the race card for their advantage, but when people comment on them AS THAT RACE, they get their feathers ruffled and twist comments to their advantage and ultimately demand an apology Enough is enough. I say they can't have it both ways,
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2007
  7. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,407
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    I have to disagree with the "racially charged" nonsense. It was a costume party; people dress up to be something they're not. Would a man dressed as a woman or vice versa be "sexually charged"? Dressing up for a costume party in no way implies anything.

    Obviously the guy didn't go around making a prick of himself intending to be offensive; that would have been a different story. The funniest thing about this kind of nonsense is that the majority of people thought it was fine and even "original" until they heard a few were offended. Then all of a sudden the costume was insensitive and inappropriate, and some people were "rightfully" offended by it.

    IMO, people need to get a grip on themselves, stop taking things so seriously and enjoy the party.
     
  8. Drew

    Drew Arrogant, contemptible, and obnoxious Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2005
    Messages:
    3,605
    Media:
    6
    Likes Received:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, there's a lot of history in the US tied up in black face (none of it positive towards blacks) and there's also an extraordinarily severe discrepancy in the way the criminal justice system treats blacks vs the way it treats whites. Not only are the repeatedly unfairly profiled, but they also receive much stricter sentences than whites for the same crimes even when they have the same criminal record. The "all blacks are criminals" stereotype is a lot stronger than you think in the south, and even here in Iowa*. In taking offense to this idiot's (any American that didn't grow up under a rock that who wouldn't expect negative consequences for attending a party with his co-workers wearing a convict costume in black face is either a moron or hopelessly naive. Probably both.) costume choice, all these elements are at play. That said, I do believe that the folks that were offended had a right to be offended, but I don't think this idiot should be fired for it.

    *This really shouldn't be surprising though. Iowa is often considered the worst place in the US to be black. The incarceration rate for blacks is around 12 times that of whites (the worst disparity in the country), primarily because blacks in Iowa get something in the area of 3 times the prison time as whites do for identical crimes with identical records.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2007
  9. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    12,434
    Media:
    46
    Likes Received:
    249
    Gender:
    Male
    Couldn't agree more. And more importantly, welcome back Spelly! :wave: Haven't seen you around in a long while.
     
  10. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    9,766
    Media:
    15
    Likes Received:
    440
    Gender:
    Male
    I can see both sides of this. I think a black man painting his face white with a bullwhip in hand would have also been offensive. There was a racial slight in the costume -- the guy could have gone as a white convict, just as a black guy could go as a black convict, with no offense. But once he chose to change his race for the costume, and depict that race in a negative way, it became a racial slight. Had he chosen to be George Washington Carver there would have been no problems.

    On the other side... it was just a costume party... lighten up DHS.
     
  11. Spellbound

    Spellbound Fleur de Mystique Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    1,273
    Likes Received:
    8
    Gender:
    Female
    Hi Aldeth! Nice to see you!:D
     
  12. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,407
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    I simply cannot agree with that. First, dressing up as a black convict for a Halloween party in and of itself makes no statement about "all blacks are criminals". The behavior of the costume wearer and the context for the costume IMO is what is important and dictates what statement is being made. One possible statement it makes in the context of a Halloween party is "some black convicts are scary", or even "I bet nobody will recognize me if I wear this costume". Unless the costume wearer was clearly making an offensive statement by wearing it, then in my opinion their offense is ridiculous.
    I don't agree. Again, context is what matters IMO, not simply the costume. In the context of a Halloween party, and given that most didn't consider it offensive (so obviously the guy wasn't trying to make an offensive statement) why should it be considered a racial slight? Again, the wearer may want to change race simply to make his disguise more effective.

    IMO, people are just too willing these days to look at a situation in a negative light instead of a positive one which is sad. Why so easily offended? It just makes life miserable for everyone involved.
     
  13. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    6,586
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    162
    Well.. it is racist, isn't it?

    Why did he feel the need to black himself up? Surely only to fit into the stereotype that black people are criminals. You couldn't get away with that here, either. if he didn't black himself up, he would've been fine. It was unnecessary to do it.
     
  14. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,407
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    "Unnecessary" and "Racist". That's exactly what I'm talking about; so willing to take the worst view of a situation. So what if it was unnecessary? He won "most original" costume by doing so. Why are some people so overly sensitive to a Halloween costume, and really so overly sensitive about such a generalized topic as race? Unless the guy was up in the face of black people at the party implying that he represents all black people in the US, why should they be personally offended?
     
  15. Spellbound

    Spellbound Fleur de Mystique Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    1,273
    Likes Received:
    8
    Gender:
    Female
    When I was a little kid, I remember my parents blacking me up to play a hobo. But then we called it just putting soot on to show dirt I guess. Wasn't meant to pertain to any race in particular.
     
  16. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    6,586
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    162
    I'm not offended by it. I couldn't give a rats bum, but it IS racist. Whether or not some people are overly sensitive or not, and choose to react or not, it doesn't matter. It's still immensely stupid to think you could go to a works do dressed as a black man in a convict outfit and not piss some people off. Sacking is a bit harsh, but I suppose it had to be done. There's no need to 'change your race' to better fit a certain thing. If you do that, then people are going to throw the racist card at you, and if it's in work environment, you'll face punishment. He must have been pretty thick to think he could get away with it.
     
  17. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,407
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm not saying that isn't the reality of the situation. I'm saying the reality is ridiculous.

    I gave several plausible reasons why it would not have been a racist decision. And what does "need" have to do with anything? It made the costume better as evidenced by his winning the "most original" award.
     
  18. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    6,586
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    162
    I'm sure if I went to a works party dressed as a terrorist, but darken my skin up and adopt an Asian accent I might stand a chance of getting 'most original' outfit. It'd still be racist as you're bracketing based on race, whether jokingly, very lightly or whatever. I don't get what there is to argue against to be honest.

    He'd probably get away with it anywhere else, but work is a different matter. I don't think that getting sacked due to this kind of thing in the workplace is ridiculous really. It's quite understandable.

    I saw your reasons, but I don't agree with them. If the guy in question was black, he'd have been fine. If he just went dressed as a convict, he'd have been fine. I don't see how making himself black added anything to the 'outfit'. He made a conscious decision to change his appearance of race, because black people have a stereotypical reputation for criminality. That's a decision based on race, to that race's detriment - racism, no?

    I don't know if I'm missing something here or what, but I'm afraid I don't 'get' the other side of the coin here...
     
  19. Spellbound

    Spellbound Fleur de Mystique Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    1,273
    Likes Received:
    8
    Gender:
    Female
    Let's flip it a bit:

    Supposed a black man had come into the party painted white, with a coon dog by his side and dressed like the stereotypical southern red necks. Do you think the white population would be screaming racist? Yet, by your definition, that's exactly what he is. Would he have been fired for doing this? Would apologies need to be made all around? The answer I think is "no". Because I don't feel that whites are as ultra sensitive about the race card, as blacks are. Everyone would have had a few laughs and gone on to enjoy the party.
     
  20. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2003
    Messages:
    6,815
    Media:
    6
    Likes Received:
    336
    I agree that it's racist, for all the reasons Barmy cited. To suggest this doesn't have a racist overtone is to suggest that racism no longer exists, and that is clearly not the case. IMO, the guy deserves what he got just for being such a dumb-ass that he wouldn't think this would cause a stir.
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.