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Credit to Bush - Visiting soldiers in Iraq

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Lokken, Nov 27, 2003.

  1. Lokken Gems: 26/31
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    [​IMG] Just saw on the news that Bush had visited the soldiers in Iraq on Thanksgiving. As much as I might dislike Bush and his politics, I have to give him credit for this. He's a heck of leader in the term of inspiring his people, kudos!

    Dunno if any can post a reference to an english source? I can post a danish language link, but I doubt it'd do much good.

    EDIT: here's one.
    http://edition.cnn.com/2003/US/11/27/thanksgiving.rdp/index.html
     
  2. Oaz Gems: 29/31
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    [​IMG] Well, it's not so secret now, but cool.
     
  3. Sojourner Gems: 8/31
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    Nothing like a captive audience.
     
  4. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    It must be getting near election time. :rolleyes:
     
  5. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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  6. Sephiroth Gems: 14/31
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    That was a really good move of Bush. This should silence his critizisers for a while.
     
  7. Oxymore Gems: 13/31
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    What? Like Saddam is the only one who has doubles... :p
     
  8. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I doubt it. His detractors will probably just call it a publicity stunt.

    BTW, it was just a publicity stunt. :D
     
  9. Sojourner Gems: 8/31
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    No, his detractors will merely point out that Bush's having to sneak into the country proves the situation in Iraq is worse than the administration is admitting.
     
  10. Lokken Gems: 26/31
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    I think the important aspect is the soldiers'. I mean if I was a soldier stationed far away from home, for a cause I wouldn't be sure is considered right or successfull. I'd have my doubts, I wouldn't be very comfortable being there at all either.

    Feeling that you have a purpose is a powerful motivator. And in case some of those soldiers die tomorrow, dying with a sense of purpose instead of the opposite, is in my eyes worth admiration to his action. It's a sort of "I share your risk" statement, from the leader himself.

    If there's a "real" reason aside that, voting stuff, whatever, I'd say so what? Sometimes the results can be good even the reasons are not.
     
  11. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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  12. Grey Magistrate Gems: 14/31
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    Oh, come ON. Isn't it possible that maybe, just maybe, Bush wanted to do something to honor the soldiers, and that the resulting positive coverage is an effect and not a cause?

    Wolfowitz was almost killed for his last foray into Iraq. If this was a publicity stunt, it's one that could've gone horribly awry - if Bush had retreated before arrival, as his handlers threatened to do if word of his trip leaked early, then he would've been humiliated. Imagine the headline - "Bush Prepares Turkey, Turns Chicken Instead"!

    Yeah, I voted for the guy, so I'm biased. Rove can find ways to squeeze political advantage from rocks - he'll find a way to squeeze blood from this, too. But even politicians are human beings, and I think this was a truly 'human' moment - lovely in its very recklessness.
     
  13. Lokken Gems: 26/31
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    [​IMG] Chandos, so you would find it better he hadn't visited them troops? Bush doesn't have to do anything, especially not go to Iraq in these times, which I still consider totally insane.

    Step back and think for once, is this a good or a bad thing? No, it's a good thing. Doesn't good things usually deserve credit? Yes they do. Credit to Bush for doing it!

    If you don't consider this a good thing, I'm very interested in why that's so?
     
  14. Oxymore Gems: 13/31
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    Seriously, he was just showing off in uniform before the cameras, not unlike the aircraft carrier episode.

    He arrived in total secrecy, spent about two hours there, never leaving the airport and "fled" back to his plane, what a fantastic display of bravery, some balls that man has... or not.

    Getting half of Britain under siege for his personal security, pissing even the queen in the process, made him look like a scared little girl. I guess his image needed a little testosterone, but the only thing his advisors could come up with was smuggling him in Iraq like a WMD. All it proves is that Iraq is far from pacified and that Americans aren't welcome there. Some mediatic coup.

    As for support to the troops... I'm sure sending them home would cheer them up a lot more, that or the Olsen twins paying them a visit.
     
  15. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    Lokken - At first, I really was not going to reply to your post, since my feelings on this topic were already clear. Usually when a post starts out with something like: "I really don't support Bush, BUT...," or "I'm completely opposed to Bush, BUT ...," I know that it's going to be trouble. There are a couple others on this board who like to banter about how they feel this way, but really use it as a lever to open up a thread-line to attack others who just rub them the wrong way, for whatever reason. I'm not saying that that is what you are engaged in. HOWEVER, when I read that: "I should stop and think for once," then I figure someone just wants to get get down and dirty with me, which is just fine with me. It is a step up from questioning my love for America because I won't go along with Bush or the cons.

    I really like the REAL Bush suppoters on this board - Hacken Slash, Grey Magistrate, The Great Snook, - to name a few. I admire their conviction, which is not really about Bush. What they have in common is that they are all thoughtful and intelligent and meaningful in their viewpoints. The thing is, all this is not about the man, Bush, but about the country. They feel that Bush is good for this country for various reasons. And the dialogue is suppose to make it easier for us to see our divergent viewpoints rather than to convince anyone to "change sides" so to speak. Sometimes the things that should be the most obvious become lost in the intensity of the dialogue.

    This is really about our country. There are those of us who feel that Bush is a bad thing for America, and we have our reasons. We believe that Howard Dean or Ralph Nader or someone similar would be a much better choice at a time like this. And what all this debate proves is that we all really care about what direction America is on right now. There have always been these kinds differences, even since the beginning. I mentioned on another thread about the falling out between Jefferson and Adams (the two Founders I happen to admire the most)over matters of ideology and party differences. But despite the different viewpoints, can anyone say that Jefferson is less of a patriot than Adams? Or that Adams cared less about America than Jefferson? Or that one was more thoughtful or intelligent than the other? I think not.

    The point is that when I think about Bush going to Iraq for a few hours for a nice photo-op, my thought process begins with something like this: Is the war in Iraq a good thing or a bad thing for my country and its people? Take it from there.

    [ December 01, 2003, 08:35: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]
     
  16. Lokken Gems: 26/31
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    My point is not about politics, it is not about america. It is about people dying every single day for a goal that seems.. hard to believe. The reasons behind his visit might be that of some political scheme boiling in your head, but the result is non the less more motivated troops instead of the lack thereof.

    I don't know if the war is good for your country, personally I think not. But what I do know is that the war is a fact. Now if a simple visit can alter the situation of those men and women dying down there, well I find that worthy of credit.

    But then he could just send them home, etc...
    Well that is another decision, another time, another action, another judgement.
     
  17. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    And that is a part of the problem, Lokken, for it does not change that aspect of the war one bit. Yes, I'm sure that the soldiers were grateful that Bush was there to show his support. That is a good thing. But how will that alter the situation for them? What he could do is rethink the kinds of schemes that he is up to in Jschild's new thread. Some of us are familar with these cuts that Bush is planning. Yet, they are kept under the radar screen of public attention. Instead, we hear a lot of coverage about this very visit that you mention - lots of glitter, but nothing of substance.
     
  18. Jaguar Gems: 27/31
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    To step off the Lokken and Chandos the Red political debate and voice my opinion, I feel it is simple. Bush made a mistake by sending troops in in the first place and would be considered if he were to fold and call the troops home. It is therefore seen that everthing he does on the issue of Iraq is trying to fix his mistake.

    Publicity stunt it truly is.
     
  19. Manus Gems: 13/31
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    That's right, there is a saying; "If you're in a hole, stop digging". If Bush was truly worried about those soldiers he'd do something about it, instead of blowing millions no doubt on his own security to give them a pep talk.

    To my mind the act in itself wasn't even that important, a visit from the president, so what? doesn't do them any good. If he really wanted to share their risk, he'd be out there holding a rifle. Besides, encouraging soldiers to kill more civillians (no matter how badly those soldiers are getting whupped) isn't a good thing in any case.
     
  20. Mithrantir Gems: 15/31
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    Without wanting to decrease the positive effects this visit may had, i want to make a couple of remarks and pose a question here.
    First of all the fact that he visited Iraq was made publicly known after he left Iraq. Secondly he flew in, stayed in the airport, DID NOT visit the headquarters at least, and flew out in a hurry. Maybe this move encouraged the soldiers, maybe not, but if you were a soldier there and saw your president flying in staying inside the airport the whole 2,5 hour he came and then flying away in complete mysticism, how would you feel?
     
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