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Challenge Ratings and Levels

Discussion in 'Dungeons & Dragons + Other RPGs' started by Compulsive Dementia, Aug 10, 2003.

  1. Compulsive Dementia Gems: 7/31
    Latest gem: Tchazar


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    My player's and I have decided to skip some levels, and begin the game at around level 11 as liches, vampires, half-dragons, etc. The problem that I have though is the level to start them at. I had planned to do it at level 13, so they could have 13 levels of a class as a standard race, or 11 levels of a class and a template like vampire or half dragon, or 9 levels of a race, a template, and a non-standard race like drow. But it looks like the challenge ratings don't "exactly" corospond to character levels, so even though a lich is challenge rating +2 base creature, doesn't mean that it modify's the ECL by two, right? I got this because an ogre is CR 2, but a PC orgre is ECL +5. This is because CR's are based on fighting 4 PC's, right? And how can I figure out what the level adjustment would be for a template? Or should I jsut play it by ear?
     
  2. Lokken Gems: 26/31
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    CR has absolutely nothing to do with ECL. Once that's settled, you can find a lot of monster races in Savage Species along full explanation for how and why some are set high and others low.

    If you can't get to savage species or dont want to buy another product, there's soldarin's ECL guide which is a bloody excellent guide :)

    Beware of vampire pc's, extremely powerful and yet extremely vulnerable.

    http://soldarin.tripod.com/rpgpages/id5.html
     
  3. Oaz Gems: 29/31
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    I believe that the Lich level adjustment is +4, and the half-dragon level adjustment is +3 (should be +5 with wings). Vampire level adjustment, as you might find, is just going to be weird. Dominate Person, Spider Climb, and Gaseous Form at will? Yikes. Not to mention the coffin thing.

    But I'm sure Lokken can give you all the necessary info on being a Lich. ;)
     
  4. Compulsive Dementia Gems: 7/31
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    I tried that today....using the 3.5 monster manual tha thas ECL already done (though that guesser was very helpful, and I'm starting to wonder if it is closer than the 3.5), and giving out 20 levels. The party consisted of a level 12 fighter vampire (apparently based of the Soul Reaver console games), a level 5 rogue/10 assassian gargoyle, and a level 16 sorcerer lich. We played one encounter- 8 frost worms. The sorcerer easily dropped them to around seventeen hit points with a maximized fire ball, which allowed the vampire with great cleave to finish them off. But their death throes distroyed the lich and the vampire, and the garoygole survived with evasion. But both of those undead respawn, and hte whole thing was over in two rounds, and it was really stupid and boring. So, time to restart the campain...again...

    But would it be better to start every body as standard races level one, or any race/template at level 1, or give out several levels(say, five)?
     
  5. Lokken Gems: 26/31
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    the key to fighting high level characters is draining their skills and abilities, something that cannot be done in a single encounter.

    If you want them to be powerful, you could start them off as level 6 (giving those willing the possibility of a prestige class in their bio or a particular race or template for others). Level 6 is a good level, if you want it to be a game of some spectacle and yet, able to throw something really powerful at them without them ending in 2 rounds ;)

    Starting at level 1-2 can severely cripple any template playing character (and outrule most).
     
  6. Nick The Friendly Goth Gems: 5/31
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    Problem with starting at level 6... No Vampire! :( or Lich...
     
  7. Chevalier Mal Fet Gems: 13/31
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    Well, if you're so set on lich let them start at 6 as a standard race and work towards lich. Could be a continuing quest for the player.
     
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