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Can You Pick?

Discussion in 'BG2: Throne of Bhaal (Classic)' started by Aldeth the Foppish Idiot, Dec 22, 2011.

  1. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    Sorry for the nebulous thread title, but I couldn't think of anything I could keep to about 50 or so characters.

    My question concerns the hell tests, specifically the one where you have to decide between sacrificing yourself or your companion.

    How does the game decide which character to pick that will get killed? Is it randomized, or in some way predetermined? Assuming the latter, is there any means of influencing which one of your characters gets picked? I suppose if you weren't interested in losing any of your companions, you could kick them all out of the party... but for an evil character, your decision may depend on who exactly gets picked to get killed.
     
  2. Montresor

    Montresor Mostly Harmless Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder

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    It is determined in some way. My guess is the game has a priority list of who gets abducted. If you enter the Selfishness test with the same party several times, it is always the same NPC who gets taken.

    I haven't tried this with the same party members but with shuffling the NPCs first.

    EDIT: I tried entering the test with a party consisting of [CHARNAME], Minsc, Jaheira, Anomen, Imoen, and Nalia in different marching orders. Minsc was abducted every time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011
  3. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    Hmmm... That definitely suggests that it is some type of hierarchical system at work. It certainly isn't random at any rate. As a possibility, perhaps it checks based on who has been in the party for the longest uninterrupted period of time? With that party composition, Minsc would likely be the winner. Imoen is obviously lost to you, and Jaheira will leave your party for a time for the Harper quests. Minsc, OTOH, would likely be part of your party throughout the entire game, and I can recall no situation in which he would be forced to leave.

    It does not appear to be based on highest level character though - Anomen with lower amounts of XPs required between levels would likely be a higher level than Minsc by that late in the game.

    Of course, it may also be that there is a list of characters it picks from, in some unknown order, and deciphering this would only be possible with a huge number of playthroughs with various parties.
     
  4. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    What happens if you solo?

    Also, if there is something in place, I would think it would be determined on a factor other instead of particular characters, otherwise an all-mod NPC party wouldn't work/would crash the game when you reached this point in the game. Or maybe it is just random...
     
  5. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    I'm pretty sure if you solo (I don't know - I've never tried, but based on what I've seen in some guides) that they just pick some random commoner and you still get the same choice of which doors to go through.
     
  6. Montresor

    Montresor Mostly Harmless Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder

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    I tried to see what happens in Infinity Explorer (by checking the dialog HELLSELF) but could only see that Aldeth is right - if you solo, the demon picks a commoner.

    I *think* the game uses a prioritized list; e.g. if Minsc is in the party he gets picked, otherwise the game continues to the next NPC on the list.
     
  7. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Then I wonder what would happen if you had 5 modded NPCs in your party? Would it crash the game? My current game has 4 modded NPCs and Mazzy(though she is modded to Pally, I don't think that matters.) I was thinking of adding Soulefain and dropping her, but not if the engine can't handle it.
     
  8. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Wouldn't it just pick some random commoner again? And yes, I can confirm that if you solo the challenge, he'll just pick a random commoner.
     
  9. Montresor

    Montresor Mostly Harmless Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder

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    I suppose you could go with Solaufein, and if the game crashes in hell CLUA in one of the NPCs and have them join you temporarily.
     
  10. Balle Gems: 19/31
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    it could possibly still pick between whoever is in your party, even if mods or ctrl+q'ed in, i can't really test though.
     
  11. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I believe the game simply chooses the character that has been with you the longest. For most that would either be Minsc or Jaheira.
     
  12. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    Does Jaheira leaving your party for the Harper quest only happen if you are romancing her? I thought you at least got the part of her briefly leaving the party and then showing up a day later asking you to accompany her to the Harper Building in the Docks district. I thought that part of her personal quest happened irrespective of whether there was an active romance.

    That said, I completely agree with Minsc. I don't think he leaves for any reason. (Perhaps if you have Unfinished Business installed, he may briefly when Boo is abducted, although I do not recall offhand.) But in the game without mods, it's near certain that any party that contains Minsc, he would be the longest active member.
     
  13. Bsisi Gems: 5/31
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    I think she does.

    Also, I remember 1 thing:
    In some game I had problems with it because the game would pick Edwin. I removed him from the party and a commoner appeared.
    It may be my memory playing tricks on me though.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2011
  14. Montresor

    Montresor Mostly Harmless Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder

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    Jaheira leaves the party twice in connection with the Harper Hold quests. When depends on whether or not you are romancing Jaheira. The first time is when Meronia appears and asks her to follow her back to the Harper Hold, the second time is after Dermin appears for the second time.

    Harper Hold quests

    I tried this as well with the party mentioned above (CHARNAME, Minsc, Jaheira, Imoen, Nalia, Anomen). The demon abducted Minsc. If I removed him from the party, the demon would pick a commoner. If I removed Minsc from the party and added him again, the demon would pick Jaheira. :confused:

    New theory on what happens: The game picks the NPC who matches the variable Player2 (found with Infinity Explorer). If there is no Player2 in the party, the game picks a commoner. CHARNAME is Player1, so the first NPC to join you (usually Minsc or Jaheira) becomes Player2.

    Now if you swap Player2 for another NPC, that NPC takes over the Player2 slot. (In your case I'm guessing you booted Minsc for Edwin, which makes sense since they don't get along;).) If on the other hand you boot Player2 without adding someone else, the Player2 slot is left empty until you add another NPC, and then existing party members are promoted and the new NPC is added as the last one in the order. (Otherwise when I re-added Minsc, the demon should have abducted him and not Jaheira.)
     
  15. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Brain fart on my part Aldeth. I've had Aerie taken as well.
     
  16. Montresor

    Montresor Mostly Harmless Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder

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    [​IMG]
    Man, would I be tempted to pick the evil path!
     
  17. pplr Gems: 18/31
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    I wouldn't by a long shot.

    Don't forget that despite the wide range of characters you can sleep with (as a guy) in the BG series she is the only one you can officially have a kid with prior to having to make an important choice post-Melissan.
     
  18. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    And how is that important? It's not like you can role play that aspect of it (assuming a good PC, with an active romance, you'd probably stay mortal - only more so now that there is a kid), and the kid doesn't do anything but take up an inventory space. I actually didn't like that aspect of it at all, just because it's so unrealistic - to say nothing of her giving birth a couple weeks after she gets pregnant.
     
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