1. Help Wanted -- Walkthrough Proofreaders!
    Sorcerer's Place is looking for help with walkthrough proofreading. Please check if you can help!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

Breach

Discussion in 'BG2: Throne of Bhaal (Classic)' started by Menion Leah, Aug 12, 2003.

  1. Menion Leah Gems: 9/31
    Latest gem: Iol


    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2003
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    0
    [​IMG] Breach (Abjuration)
    Level: 5
    Range: Visual sight of caster
    Duration: Instant
    Casting Time: 5
    Area of Effect: Target Creature
    Saving Throw: None

    When this spell is cast at a creature, it breaches and dispels all of
    the specific and combat protections on the target creature.
    Here is a
    complete list of all the specific protection spells that are dispelled
    by breach: Shield, Protection Circle, Resist Fear, Protection From
    Fire/Cold, Fireshield, Protection From Acid, Protection From
    Electricity, Protection From Magic Energy, Protection From The
    Elements, and Protection From Energy. The combat protection spells
    dispelled by this spell are: Protection From Normal Missiles,
    Protection From Normal Weapons, Protection From Magic Weapons,
    Stoneskin, Armor, Ghost Armor, Spirit Armor, Absolute Immunity, Mantle,
    and Improved Mantle. The target's magic resistance, if he has any,
    does not affect this spell.
    -------------------------------------------------

    I have two questions about this spell:
    1. If it dispells ALL protections from a creature, why would you ever want any higher level spells that do the same (possibly with only one protection)?

    2. I fought the elemental lich yesterday, but casting breach on it, didn't really do a lot. It said: 'combat protections removed', but my weapons were still ineffective (even though improved mantle was dispelled) and the lich still had all kinds of aura's around him, implying he still had a lot of protections. So is it true this spell doesn't dispel all protections?
     
  2. JSBB Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Messages:
    4,054
    Likes Received:
    1
    1. No it does not dispell all protections. First, if the target has cast spell immunity: abjuration it will not remove any protections. Second, if you look at your list of breachable spells you will note that some protection spells such as spell trap and spell turning are not on the list.

    2. Breach will get rid of protective spells but not natural immunities. Thus, if you need a magic weapon of a certain strength to hit an opponent, casting breach (or any other protection stripping spell) will not allow you to damage the opponent with a lesser weapon.
     
  3. Arian Gems: 5/31
    Latest gem: Andar


    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2003
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    0
    IIRC, Breach can dispell even if you have spell immunity: abjuration on.

    Breach is mostly used for combat protections (spells that stop your weapons) and other spells (Ruby Ray, Kelbehn's Whip, Spellstrike) remove spell protections. At least, that's how my mages work.
     
  4. Universal Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2003
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    According to http://members.chello.nl/~j.vanthull/BG2SR/Main.htm (A very good spells site), Breach is able to go through ALL spell protections other than Spell Shield (also level 5) which absorbs the breach. So it is able to go through Spell Immunity: Abjuration. However, it didn't work on the elemental lich because liches are IMMUNE to level 5 and lower spells. I think they're also naturally immune to normal weapons (not sure on this).
    So you'd have to wait until his protection from magic weapons to run out before wacking him to death. Or if you're high level enough, use spell protection removal spells like Khelben's Warding whip, Ruby ray of reversal, etc... to remove his protections so you can use level 6+ damage spells against him.
     
  5. Menion Leah Gems: 9/31
    Latest gem: Iol


    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2003
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    0
    @Universal
    That's probably the reason. It couldn't be that he was immune to my weapons, because after some time, I could hit him.

    But now it seems to me that the only reason for having higher level 'breach' spells, is that some creatures are immune to low-level spells?
     
  6. Mr Writer Gems: 8/31
    Latest gem: Skydrop


    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2001
    Messages:
    288
    Likes Received:
    0
    I find most of the anti protection spells are usless as I always take a fighter heavy party and just breach then whack, not found anyone who can stand up to that.

    Makes the game a bit too easy though.
     
  7. Universal Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2003
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think Breach is the only spell that removes COMBAT protections. So if you're planning on killing the lich through physical damage, you will have to wait until his protection from magical weapon expires before tackling him.

    If you want to take him out with magical damage, you need to remove his SPELL protections and then attack it with damage spells that are level 6 or above.
     
  8. Alex Gems: 12/31
    Latest gem: Moonstone


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    0
    I know from personal experience that Breach does not break through Spell Trap and Spell Immunity: Abjuration and other assorted spell protections. It only eliminates combat protections. Install the tactics mod where those two are used left and right and you'll see. The Ruby Ray will quickly become your best friend.
     
  9. pyroashani Gems: 2/31
    Latest gem: Fire Agate


    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    @universal that may be true about the lich being immune to 5th level and lower spells however i also believe that it all lichs (including the elemenatl ones) have magic resistance as well.
     
  10. Alex Gems: 12/31
    Latest gem: Moonstone


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    484
    Likes Received:
    0
    Magic Resistance shouldn't apply to Breach and its counterparts, as it is not targeting the creature, but it's magical protections.
     
  11. pyroashani Gems: 2/31
    Latest gem: Fire Agate


    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    @alex

    You are right its magic resistance wouldnt ge affected i was just pointing out that lich's have somewhere between 25-50% magic resistance depending on how many levels they had in their prior life. i would assume that kangaxx would be closer to 50% in lich form and close to 75% in demi-lich form.
     
  12. Rastor Gems: 30/31
    Latest gem: King's Tears


    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2002
    Messages:
    3,533
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, it can't. Try it and see. You'll get a spell ineffective response.

    Once again, no it can't. Breach will not go through spell trap, spell turning, spell deflection. Basically, it will knock down anything that makes the mage tougher to physically hurt.

    I know for a fact that I was able to breach liches before installing the tactics mod, so I don't think that they have the level 5 immunity in the unmodded game.

    Just took a look at tactics mod. It adds an item that gives liches that ability. I don't know about the normal weapons thing.

    Spellstrike will too.

    Actually, you don't. AoE spells targetted right next to him will spell work through all his spell protections.

    Actually, according to the game files, liches do not have any magic resistance.

    Demiliches also do not have any natural magic resistance, but they do have an item that makes them immune to level 9 spells and lower. Lower resistance and such will not work on them.
     
  13. Universal Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2003
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    I recently tested Spell Immunity: Abjuration and, sure enough, breach was able to penetrate it and dispelled the stoneskin and other combat protections. By combat protections, I mean stoneskin, protection from normal/magical weapons (and other variations), protection from elements, etc. Breach and dispel/remove magic are the ONLY spells that remove these combat protections. Spell Immunity: Abjuration will protect against dispel/remove magic but does not protect against breach.

    On the other hand, there are spell protections, which are (minor) spell turning, (minor) spell deflection, (minor) globe of invulnerability and spell trap. These 7 spells will protect against a direct magical attack (so you're correct about the area damage spells level 6+ which can hurt the spellcaster even if he has these spell protections up). Spell shield will also protect against spell protection removal spells AND breach

    Spellstrike, along with other spells such as pierce shield/magic, Khelben's warding whip, Ruby ray of reversal, and others will remove the spell protections mentioned above (see spell description).

    According to the site I posted above, liches are immune to level 5 or lower spells, so I don't think it's part of the Tactics mod.
     
  14. pyroashani Gems: 2/31
    Latest gem: Fire Agate


    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    @rastor If or if not they have magic resistance in the game, (I'm not sure but I think they do but I havent looked at the files) that fact doesn't matter. I was wrong about the percentages. I'm not sure exactly how much magic resistance they have but i am almost 100% sure they have magic resistance in 2nd edition. How much i don't know becuase i don't have a monster manuel in front of me or here for that (long story). Now what i would like to know is why they don't have MR.
     
  15. Spelladonna Gems: 14/31
    Latest gem: Chrysoberyl


    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    610
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, except that pierce shield and pierce magic removes only one spell protection as does Ruby Ray of Reversal. Warding whip removes up to three, but only one at a time.

    Breach doesn't affect Spell Immunity of any school. Pierce Shield, Pierce Magic and Spellstrike do.
     
  16. Rastor Gems: 30/31
    Latest gem: King's Tears


    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2002
    Messages:
    3,533
    Likes Received:
    0
    Strangely enough, breach was never able to do a darned thing when a mage used spell immunity:abjuration in my game. Wierd.

    Then how was I able to breach SoA and ToB liches without the tactics mod installed?

    In the game, they don't (unless they get it from an item. I'm too lazy to look it up.) I'm pretty sure you're right about AD&D rules, however.

    No clue, but it would take me about 2 seconds to give them MR and mail you a patch, if you're so inclined.
     
  17. Universal Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2003
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wasn't very clear on my wording, but Breach ignores Spell Immunity but does not remove it. The spell protection removal spells, however, will remove this immunity according to the descriptions of the spells.

    However, something I found that was quite interesting was that Spell Shield will absorb the Spellstrike completely. This means that even though the target may have some spell protections (spell turning, globe of invulnerability), they will not be removed by the spellstrike as long as the target has spell shield activated (which is contrary to the spell description). The same goes for Khelben's warding whip, which will be completely absorbed by spell shield, and the next 2 rounds of spell protection removal will have no effect.

    When you try to breach a lich, the combat info will say something like:
    Specific Protection Dispelled
    Spell Protections Removed
    Combat Protections Dispelled
    Normally, the stoneskin, Fireshield Blue, and Fireshield Red will be removed, but note they will still be present and, furthermore, the person who cast breach against the lich will take damage from the fireshields. Protection from Magical weapons lasts 4 rounds only, so maybe you cast breach at the time the lich's immunity ran out?
     
  18. Spelladonna Gems: 14/31
    Latest gem: Chrysoberyl


    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    610
    Likes Received:
    0
    Are you certain about this? Warding whip does, indeed, remove spell shield in the fact that the spell shield will absorb the first attack of the whip, thereby removing the shield. Once cast, warding whip removes one spell protection every round for three rounds. If the whip was successfully cast against spell shield, the shield prevents the first attack of warding whip and is consumed. For the next two rounds, however, the whip would be able to remove protections as the shield would be gone, due to its absorbing the first whip attack.
     
  19. Universal Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2003
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    According to my tests, Khelben's Warding whip was indeed absorbed completely by Spell Shield, and the next two rounds' spell protection removal did not occur. The message displayed "Spell Ineffective" when it strikes the Spell Shield. The same goes for Spellstrike also, which, in its description, gave me the impression that it was supposed to completely remove all spell protections. I guess Spell Shield is quite underestimated in its power.
     
  20. Spelladonna Gems: 14/31
    Latest gem: Chrysoberyl


    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    610
    Likes Received:
    0
    Based on this new info, I would be counted as one that definitely underestimated its power. Thanks for that! :thumb:
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.