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Bombay High Court Rules Astrology Science, Palm Reading Applied Science.

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Ragusa, Feb 7, 2011.

  1. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    The Bombay High Court ruled in a case that Astrology is science, and that palm reading is an applied science. I wonder what they have to say on Alchemy, which always was my favourite subject. The lawsuit was brought by an NGO challenging ‘fake’ astrologers, tantriks, practitioners of Vastu shastra.:
    Indeed!

    In this light, Professor Brian Cox, a particle physicist at the University of Manchester and host of Wonders of the Solar System on the Science Channel, is nothing short of a heretic. He has brought the wrath of the Astrological Association of Great Britain upon himself by saying on BBC2′s “Stargazing Live” show, that “astrology is nonsense”.

    The Association now wants the BBC to commit to "making a fair and balanced representation of astrology in the future". Ah yes, the old anti-astrology bias - undoubtedly, the Liberals at BBC are at it again.
     
  2. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Hehe. Time-tested science. I'd like to see those tests and the reproductions thereof. :)
     
  3. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    I read the article, and I understand that the point that was being contested was that astrology often comes up with the wrong prediction. Because of this, they said it fell under the "The Drugs and Megical Remedies Act" and the "Objectionable Advertisements" of the same. What I don't understand is this: What exactly were they suing for? India has modernized dramitically in recent years. I imagine a major city like Bombay has hospitals and other health care locations available to the populace which would obviate the need of "Megical Remedies".

    While I think that considering astrology as a science is a joke, is there actually a large segment of India's population that relies on such stuff in the place of drugs and actual medical remedies for ailments? We have astrologers in the US too - but we don't go to them when we get sick. I would think that the education system in India - just given the number of Indian doctors we have in the US - would indicate that the average Indian doesn't go to see an astrologer seeking cures - at least not in the place of traditional medicine.

    So was the lawsuit simply to ban astrologers and the like from advertising that they could cure certain things?
     
  4. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Aldeth, only a small fraction of overall India is modernized. The rest of it is still as backwards and poor as it has been for centuries. The higher castes still have all the privileges and the lower none. And this is just the cities - the countryside is still pretty much in medieval times by our standards.

    Plenty of people turn to astrologers over (or in combination with) doctors here, in the middle of modern Europe - let alone India. In a country as gigantic as India and where astrology is traditional, you can bet that a substantial part of the population is constantly relying on it.
     
  5. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    Well, then no court ruling is going to change that either way. Stupid is as stupid does.
     
  6. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Stupid's relative... plenty of otherwise normally or even exceptionally intelligent people believe in astrology. It's not that far removed from religion, really. If you just go by the "stupid is as stupid does" principle, anyone wasting time on prayer is stupid as well. It's not as much belief in anyone or anything specific that empowers people but belief in general.

    Anyway, if they were to ban astrology ads, they would also need to ban any other kind of misleading, unprovable or downright lying advertising, but even in Europe and in the US our media is full of that kind of ads (diet <insert slimming agent here> for one...). Here religious advertising is practically non-existent (odd, now that I think about it...), but I can just imagine the slew of lawsuits burying the US courts if any of the 24643276 churches suddenly had to prove their claims of leading people to salvation. Salvation huh? Place in heaven? Prove it or take down that ad!
     
  7. 8people

    8people 8 is just another way of looking at infinite ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    [​IMG] The deeper studies into astrology and its applications are actually quite fascinating, and I know I come from a highly minority viewpoint here.

    It's comparative of macrocosm to microcosm, essentially a study of correlation not unlike the majority of statistics. Passing it as a science, perhaps a little overreaching :lol:

    There is recorded evidence of different seasonal and cyclic changes that regularly occur in effecting a persons life, for example the higher rates of prison or asylum trouble along with statistics on crime rates have been noted to be higher during periods of the full moon (The derivative of Lunacy) there are also studies saying people born during the autumn have an average longer lifespan - theorhetically due to the mothers diet being more rich over the summer mothers. Different school years will have noteable traits that aren't necessarily present in adjacent years but may be noticeable in the same class five years ago. (Of course there are, as always, as many studies that will cite the complete opposite :))

    It's collating recorded social, medical and historical observations and aligning them with periodic cycles that correspond with them by means of the solar system that can easily be recorded, predicted and utilised to calculate a specific combination.
     
  8. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Are you sure of the full moon thing? I know that I saw some programme that discussed that and asked around and looked at statistics and could see no increase in crime, or people being committed to asylums or anything at all.
     
  9. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    Astrology is crap. Obviously, truth can only be read reliably from the entrails of a chicken.

    Point is, I had chicken hearts (in port sauce) on Saturday. I am truth now.
     
  10. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    That's exactly my point. I have no problem with people praying, but I think anyone who eschews traditional medical treatment in favor of faith healing is remarkably foolish, and I feel the same way about astrology. I don't care if people enjoy participating in astrology, and I don't even have a problem if people believe in its predictive powers, but this court case specifically focused on falsely advertising "Megical Remedies" of astrologers. So yes, I do think the "stupid is as stupid does" principle can be applied equally to both astrological cures and faith healers.
     
  11. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    The gullible and their money easily part.
     
  12. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I used to be a firm believer in astrology until the experts recently told us that everyting is off by about a month, so rather than being an Aries, I am instead a Pisces. I ain't no f***ing fish! :mad:
     
  13. Decados

    Decados The Chosen One

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    Unsurprisingly, my views align with those of Professor Brian Cox.

    I don't know if there are many studies suggesting a lunar cycle/crime correlation. Indeed, a quick Google search lead me to 2 studies that found no link between the two, and a blog post summarising another eight which agreed. Conclusion was "It is concluded that lunar phase is not related to
    human behavior and that the few positive findings are examples of a Type
    I error." (Psych Bull. 85, 1123-1129)

    So it's your entrails we need to start reading then? Good to know.

    Heh. I was highly amused when I found that out because the news article I read it in was followed by a stream of comments protesting that the findings were wrong because they knew that their old star sign fit them better. Better to pretend the news didn't happen than accept I've been wrong all this time!
     
  14. 8people

    8people 8 is just another way of looking at infinite ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    [​IMG] Oh god not that bloody astrology thing again...

    What was 'reported' as saying the signs are off by about a month is actually a comparison of two different astrological systems. Tropical systems used by western and a majority of eastern astrologists focuses on a system where each sign is given 30 degrees and the correlations are focused around that. Vedic or sidereal astrology focuses on the actual constelations which alter in positions because the earth wobbles like a top slowing down. However there's also the fact that a few constellations have been changed due to overlaps in stars or simplifying the system - for example the claws of scorpio were integrated into libra to make the constellations separate.

    Your star sign won't change unless you decide to change system. :rolleyes:

    I also did say that there would be studies for boths sides of the argument ;) There are for most things medical, scientific, statistical and theorhetical.

    The risk comes from the source of the much of of astrology is amateur attempts to get money from desperation rather than to practice a craft and refine it. There is also misrepresentation, if Astrology is indeed to be viewed as a science you still wouldn't go to a physicist for medical advice, same as you wouldn't go to a vet first and you wouldn't go to a GP to understand tidal effects on the geography of primarily soft rocked islands.
     
  15. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    Over my dead body ... oh, wait ... :eek: :outta:
     
  16. LKD Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


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    IMHO, astrology is a religious belief system. It well and truly looks to a "higher power" for guidance in daily life. You don't get much higher than the stars, do you? Like many religions, it has a complicated system of belief patterns. Like many Eastern religions, it doesn't have much of a belief in sapient deity(ies) but rather is more pantheist / animist in approach.

    Given that I too am religious, I hesitate to be overly dismissive or patronizing toward the practice. Obviously as a Christian I don't believe in astrology, but being a Christian shouldn't mean insulting or deriding other faith systems.
     
  17. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    That was exactly what I was saying in a previous post when I compared megical cures offered by astrologers to faith healers. I do think it is comparable to religion, but with more of a link to mysticism than actual worship as you pointed out.

    However, I don't think pointing such out (that their effectiveness - or lack thereof - is comparable to faith healers) should be considered to be insulting or deriding them. You're a Christian - but you still go see a doctor, and not a priest when you are sick.
     
  18. LKD Gems: 31/31
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    Oh, I completely agree with that. Belief is wonderful and powerful and can work miracles, but whatever higher power exists also gave us reason and expects us to use it. I lose respect for faith systems that do not include proper medical care in their approach to dealing with actual medical problems.

    In that sense, I believe that the Indian court has made a drastic mistake. Religious groups should not be taking money for medical treatments that cannot be proved in the here and now.
     
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