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Best Bug fix collections + Intended gameplay unlocking

Discussion in 'BG2: Throne of Bhaal (Classic)' started by Allstar, Dec 23, 2008.

  1. Allstar Gems: 1/31
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    [​IMG] I've decided to finally finish BG once and for all! I've got a Chapter 2 game I started many moons ago so I may aswell restart which is advantageous in some patch cases.

    There seem to be so many changes/tweaks out there I'm lost. I've installed SoA+Patch+Merchants and ToB+Patch(26498) but imagine there are many other bugs that didn't get squished, baldurdash seems to list quite a few!

    Also, I'd like to 'unlock' any black isle/bioware intended content that they didn't get finished but someone else did.

    What core patches/fixes would you recommend?
     
  2. olimikrig

    olimikrig Cavalier of War Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    First of all patching SoA was redundant since installing ToB and its patch would fix all problems otherwise solved by the SoA patch. Second you shouldn't install mods or the likes (thinking about the bonus merchants here) before ToB. You should install SoA>ToB>patch and then any mods you might wish to add .

    To my experience the Unfinished Business module (the one adding all those neat things Bioware had to leave out for the final game) is extremely buggy and I'd generally advise against it, or at least be cautions (unless it has been fixed since last time I played with it, which, admittedly, is a long time ago).

    If you have never actually completed Baldur's Gate II before I wouldn't bother with any mods really. Only a fixpack and maybe a tweak pack or two. I would use the BG2 fixpack over at Gibberlings rather than the Baldurdash one seeing as it's newer and to my knowledge fixes a wider variety of bugs. You can't have both, however, they are completely incompatible. I would probably also go with some of the optional content from the BG2 Tweak Pack simply for ease-of-use as it allows you to have unlimited arrow stacking and the likes, making inventory management less of a hassle. It also adds the bonus merchants you yourself mentioned. Besides that I wouldn't install anything else on a first-time run through, so you get to experience the original content as it was intended.

    If I were you I'd go with a full reinstall of the games, and I'd keep to this install order: SoA>ToB>ToB patch>BG2 fixpack>BG2 tweak pack.
    However if you do decide to use some additional mods make sure you read the readmes of all the mods you intend to add before installing anything, because some might be incompatible, some might need to be installed at a specific place in the install order, and some might be partially incompatible and you need to leave out components from either of the two (or more) mods that are partially incompatible.
     
    Silverstar likes this.
  3. Sikret Gems: 13/31
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    Baldurdash is far from a perfect fixpack, but it's still the best available option and way better than the G3's BG2 Fixpack (as the latter is itself a heavily bugged mod, which also confuses between the notions of 'fix' and 'tweak' and applies many arbitrary and unwelcome changes to the game under the fixing disguise).

    I also second olimikrig's opinion about the Unfinished Business mod. It's badly bugged.
     
  4. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I was quite pleased with Baldurdash Fixpack. I didn't use the tweaks.
     
  5. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Well, I'm probably going to shock Sikret (and Baronious) by agreeing somewhat with their opinion of G3's Fixpack. The lastest version seems to have a lot of bugs. There's a fix for some of them at G3 (check the forums), but personally, I think I'll go back to Baldurdash the next time I play.

    The G3 Tweakpack, OTOH, is excellent.

    And yes, I've had problems with UB as well.

    You might also want to consider the Banter Pack. It increases interactions between party members, without having any impact on actual gameplay.
     
  6. Sikret Gems: 13/31
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    Hi, Splunge!

    I may have some good news for you regarding a new TOB-fixpack in the next six months or so. I will start creating it in February and will release its first version a few months later ; and I guess you know me well enough to be aware that I don't release bugged mods.

    The new TOB fixpack's first few versions will be released with WeiDu installer. Once, the new modding tool Baronius is working on is released, we will start to release the new fixpack in the new format using the new software (which has all of WeiDu's advantages plus several more), but will also keep supporting and updating the WeiDu version as well.

    Cheers

    PS: As for the G3's bg2 fixpack, it has fundamental and methodological problems. Its problems can't be solved by releasing hotfixes or even newer versions as long as they don't change their general modding philosophy. With every new version, they may fix some bugs, but will create new bugs as well. The G3's tweakpack suffers from the same kind of fundamental problems as well (though in a less serious degree compared to the fixpack).
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2008
  7. nataben1314 Gems: 10/31
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    The current version of the G3 fixpack is particularly bad, as it ruins one of the best weapons in the game (the upgraded mace of disruption).

    I appreciate the effort of the G3 fixpack, but overall I've liked baldurdash better.
     
  8. Cal Jones

    Cal Jones I'm not dead yet

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    I don't use any fix packs. Nothing in the game as it stands ruins the game or stops you from finishing it whereas the G3 fixpack seems to introduce some showstoppers.
    Typically I run with Ascension, a few elements from UB and one or two other mods. I do a clean install between playthroughs (that's to say, I use the fast method of replacing old modded files with backed-up files rather than reinstalling from disc) and have few problems. Most of the people who have had really bad problems seem to be running mega installs.
    In my current game I have the following parts of UB installed:

    ~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #1 // The Suna Seni/Valygar Relationship
    ~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #2 // Kalah and What He Was Promised
    ~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #7 // Restored Encounters
    ~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #8 // Artemis Entreri in Bodhi's Lair
    ~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #9 // Corrected "Xzar's Creations"
    ~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #10 // Restored Hell Minions, by SimDing0
    ~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #15 // NPC Portrait Restorations
    ~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #17 // Corrected Character Names and Biographies
    ~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #21 // Throne of Bhaal Minor Restorations

    I know some people have had problems with the Suna Seni part but I've never had any issues at all with it.
    I know the Minsc quest is buggy (not tried that yet) but there's a patch somewhere for it. Also, the Restored Minor Dialogues component doesn't work with some other mods, though I can't remember which.
    I've run some very troublesome mods (such as Edwin romance, Nathaniel NPC, Longest Road etc) with none of the big problems a lot of people seem to report, and I put it down to my relatively conservative installs.
    Less is definitely more.
     
  9. Western Paladin Gems: 10/31
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    I love it how you're allowed to walk in and fire off hyperbole like

    and the staff doesn't bat an eyelid, but post something comparatively mild about Improved Anvil or some such and you face threats and heavy-handed moderation. I guess we know where this site's sympathies lie.

    (Oh, and before you start dogpiling on me with the "OMG G3 PROPAGANDA" stuff, I'm here of my own accord, fed up based on my own observations, and posting inflammatory content on my own initiative. G3's staff doesn't know I'm here and I doubt they would approve.)
     
  10. Sikret Gems: 13/31
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    I liked your signature:

    It seems that you really needed that signature to feel important.

    All I mentioned above in this thread were pure facts. Most of the things I have said about the G3's fixpack have already been proven and many players who were initially reluctant to agree with me have gradually started to see the points. You, of course, can keep ignoring the facts, it's not a problem. I'm not in the habit of replying to your type; this time I made an exception just because of your lovely signature which says a lot about your character. :)

    Sorcerer's Place is one of the most reasonably moderated sites in the entire community and you even attacked them for allowing me to state my opinion and some plain facts. That's funny.
     
  11. Shaitan

    Shaitan Always forgive your enemies; it annoys them so

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    For those of us happily using the G3 Fixpack it would perhaps be of some interest that David W (creator of SCS) is investing time in updating the Fixpack.

    Happy new year
     
  12. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    At the risk of venturing into moderator territory, I'd like to direct people's (especially Sikret's) attention to this thread, starting with post #46 by Tal, where he asked that any specific criticisms of the G3 Fixpack not be made here, but instead be be made via a link to other site, in order to stop the inevitable flaming on SP that results from those kind of "debates".

    For the record, I used to be a fan of the Fixpack, but the problems with the current version documented on G3's own site made me concerned as to its reliability. I'm glad to hear that DavidW is working on the Fixpack. :)

    I'm not sure where this is coming from. I have seen several posts on SP criticizing Improved Anvil (and made some myself). The only time I recall a moderator stepping in is when the criticisms get personal by being directed at Sikret and Baronious rather the mod itself.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2009
  13. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    You must have strange definitions of comparatively mild, or of "threats and heavy-handed moderation" then.

    Even when you weren't here of your own accord, any posts from you that haven't been trolling (or very good attempts of it), baiting or derisive have been so few and far in between in the last few years that I can hardly remember them. Despite that, and despite your signature in every post which always reminds me of the attitude you have towards BoM (apparently hoping that you can annoy us into banning you), you're still posting here and still haven't been banned. Imagine that...

    Thanks, Splunge. Referring to that thread is something that I'm more than happy to see any member do when the course of any given discussion calls for it. Not because I don't believe Sikret, but because it's the only way to prevent thread derailment. Sikret, in the future, please expand on this issue on BWL and just link to it here. It's been discussed here often enough in the past.

    That's the idea.
     
  14. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Just realized I forgot to reply to this:

    Glad to hear it, Sikret. I'll be sure to check it out when it's done. :)
     
  15. cmorgan Gems: 6/31
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    Please visit G3 to take a look at the BG2 Fixpack, now being updated. I would like to note that there are hotfixes in the forum, and that DavidW is reviewing the active and ongoing community support provided by a wide variety of international modders. The best bet (as always) is to not install the BETA component of the fixpack, but the regular component. It provides a solid set of fixes for both BG2 and BGT (found at SHS) games, and its relevant fixes are already incorporated into Macready's EasyTutu (forums at PPG).

    There are also a number of other mods available there, to add to your enjoyment. I would swing past SHS and PPG as well, for updates to several good mods - SHS is in the middle of their "12 days of Christmas" set of releases, providing new content. And PPG has a whole set of WeiDU.log posts to help you with install order. At CoM, CoM_Solaufain has released an updeated mod as well.

    Glad you are taking a look at BG2 again :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2009
  16. Baronius

    Baronius Mental harmony dispels the darkness ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Since several things have been brought up in this topic, I will post some information on them here, instead of a new topic.

    The new software to replace WeiDU mentioned by Sikret is in very early stage. I can't promise anything about its release date (can be years, but it is not abandoned, and may get new helpers). WeiDU has several problems, this is why it's required to provide a much more user-friendly, high-productivity and self-checking installation and development environment. Registered and logged-in users of BWL can see a subforum on the BWL forum, with a discussion about this project (working name: IEMT).

    As far as the fixpacks are concerned, the project planned by Sikret will hopefully offer a modern and reliable base for all games. I have meager hopes about the revised G3 Fixpack, unless it's remade practically from scratch (which I doubt will be done) and with some correct methodology. As I have emphasized it earlier as well, building a more complex mod is like building any slightly complex software -- that is, it can be as difficult as any engineering work. I don't know about the experience and/or qualifications of the "wide variety of international modders" you mentioned, but I suggest you to revise the complete architecture of the mod, without using certain incorrect principles (such as the one resulting in subjective fixes and thus introducing a thick and sensitive dependency graph). Some day, perhaps, it can even be merged with the project Sikret plans to manage.

    Reliable and safe mod management and installations cannot be guaranteed (or even improved) with weidu.log-s, binary TP2 operations and forum bug reports. Modding must be put to new bases. In the next years, as far as possible for me, I will try to manage the development of the new software (to replace WeiDU) mentioned by Sikret.
     
  17. cmorgan Gems: 6/31
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    Just a quick note - BG2 Fixpack has just had a release today, for player's current enjoyment. Any users wishing to use it may download it without registering, and provide both feedback and questions as guests of G3, available here.

    Replacing ten years of modding with an entirely new system is an admirable and daunting task. I wish BWL well on their endeavor, but is not on the OP question. To the OP, please use whichever set of fixes you want to, or none at all. Have fun playing again (if you like evil necromacer females with a seriously twisted sense of humor, I suggest Ninde, just released at SHS - I followed some of her development, and I am really looking forward to a playthrough with her. Good massage scene. Very steamy, in a non-sleazy way).
     
  18. Sikret Gems: 13/31
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    We have already been working with our new modding methodology since 2005. So, we are already quite experienced in it and everyone has also observed the results. Just consider the stable and bugfree mods we release and compare them with some heavily bugged (and apparently unfixable) mods of other communities to see the differences.

    The new modding tool Baronius is working on is just a more convenient and more powerful tool than WeiDu. The main problem of those bugged mods lies behind the bad methodology of their creators, not the tools used in their creation. We are still using WeiDu, but with a different approach. WeiDu is a powerful tool if used with the right modding philosophy and method.
     
  19. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    [​IMG] Please open a new thread if you wish to discuss your project further.
     
  20. Baronius

    Baronius Mental harmony dispels the darkness ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    One last point before I answer Allstar's question (I suppose a new thread wouldn't worth it for it, as it's not really a discussion point, rather just completive information to Sikret's statement).
    Exactly. WeiDU modding requires more knowledge and experience in computer engineering (or at least, programming) than the new software will require. Consequently, modders make more mistakes with WeiDU, because instead of focusing on the mod's content, they must focus on low-level "coding" and similar things too much. With a new system, they have less things to worry about (and less things to learn), since the *system* itself will do a lot of things instead of them -- things that now WeiDU can't do. In other words, the methodology they will have to learn in order to make reliable mods will be easier than what WeiDU requires.

    Since I don't plan to start a new thread here (the new software should support all IE games, not just BG2, anyway), I suggest that anyone interested should contact me here or at BWL, or can start a topic for it on his or her own in the Infinity Engine modding forum of Sorcerer's Place.

    Allstar: I recommend either Baldurdash or no fixpack at all (the first one is preferred). The latter option may sound surprising, but most players don't experience any serious bugs even with an unmodded game which has the official fixpack installed.
     
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