1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

A Look at Bad Game Design at Gamasutra

Discussion in 'Game/SP News & Comments' started by chevalier, Sep 4, 2007.

  1. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    16,815
    Media:
    11
    Likes Received:
    58
    Gender:
    Male
    Gamasutra has set its eyes upon the lavish fount of disappointment and anguish known as bad game design. No roleplaying games are mentioned, although the problems being considered concern RPGs at least as much and probably more. Here's a snip:

    Then it just sat there, waiting. "What am I supposed to do?" she asked the guy who was showing her the game. "Anything you want!" he said proudly (this was 1979, and games with parsers were brand new). But she didn't know what she wanted to do. The game didn't give her any incentive to do anything in particular, and we've lived with the same Twinkie Denial Condition for nearly 30 years -- it still happens, believe it or not.

    Read the rest at Gamasutra.
     
  2. Ziad

    Ziad I speak in rebuses Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,088
    Media:
    57
    Likes Received:
    47
    A bit of a long-winded article. I disagree with many points it makes.

    1. There's nothing wrong with mini-games per se, even if they're not optional. There certainly is something wrong with poorly designed mini-games, but they don't have to be. No One Lives Forever 2 had several unusual situations (the tri/monocycle chase, the sword duel and the tornado); one of the most exciting things about this game is that you're never sure what the game is going to throw at you. Not wanting to learn a new set of skills while a game progresses feels like laziness. A game that never progresses or changes gets very dull very quickly.

    2. One of the most irritating things I find in modern games is that they constantly hammer you with reminders of what objective you need to complete. Yes, having easy access to a clearly stated objective is nice, but not when it shows up on your radar, on every loading screen, is automatically spoken by every character around you... it again feels lazy. I was never a great fan of note-taking (and with some of the old CRPGs you could have enough to write a small book by the end), but I'd much rather take manual notes than be spoon-fed. A journal-type system (which most modern and many old CRPGs use anyway) is a good balance.

    3. The amnesia thing: same as with mini-games. It's been done awfully badly (a cookie for anyone who remembers Harvester. Those who never played it can consider themselves lucky), and it's been done brilliantly (PST of course). And as for that quote from The Sandbaggers, I find it a pretty heavy-handed way to pass on necessary information, and I'd hardly call it a good example to follow (though it still beats most voiceover narrations)

    However, the problem with victory conditions is spot on. I cannot count the number of times I've been frustrated when a game would not acknowledge I'd completed an objective simply because I got too creative and did it in a way the designers didn't expect. This problem's always existed in computer games, but it seems to be getting worse with advanced technology, and consequently with the engine offering the illusion of multiple solutions.
     
  3. The Magister Gems: 26/31
    Latest gem: Diamond


    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,364
    Media:
    16
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    *cough* Stalker *cough*
     
  4. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2000
    Messages:
    23,718
    Media:
    494
    Likes Received:
    582
    Gender:
    Male
    Just look at the original Sam & Max if you want examples of great mini-games. I've probably spent more time playing Wak-A-Rat, Car Bomb and Dress-up than the game itself!

    But then again, old Lucas Arts adventures are just too good for words.
     
  5. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    16,815
    Media:
    11
    Likes Received:
    58
    Gender:
    Male
    Yup, minigames are great. Just if they aren't compulsory. For example, I hate compulsory arcade parts in roleplaying games. You play a roleplaying game not for your victory to depend on the agility of your fingers. Fortunately, they're doable in most games - I just couldn't make the last optional flight in Jade Empire, the one to save Lord Lao. But I remember the ranger promotion quest in Might & Magic IX. It was horrible. Imagine precise jumping Indiana Jones style on the right tiles in first person view... do one thing wrong and you fail. And they won't always tell you you've already failed so you could start over. Nope. I went right through the traps (because I was so uber I didn't care), planted a Lloyd's Beacon right before the exit, started over, teleported and reported to the quest giver like the walkthrough said. What great thing Might & Magic had, though, was Arcomage. That card game just rocked.
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.