1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

A couple of feats

Discussion in 'Dungeons & Dragons + Other RPGs' started by chevalier, Aug 4, 2005.

  1. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    16,813
    Media:
    11
    Likes Received:
    57
    Gender:
    Male
    Something that came to my mind on the way back home today. They are mostly feats with a roleplaying purpose, even though such matters are typically resolved without the use of a feat. Still, you could, for example, use one of these feats if your DM won't let you have the benefits otherwise or if you are a DM and don't want to give your players a free lunch. Also, you can use the feats to represent a group of benefits and drawbacks but according it freely to players and NPCs without requiring them to take these. Whatever use you have for the feats, hope you enjoy them. Feel free to comment.

    Ancestry, nobility, background:

    Minor Noble

    Description: You were born into a minor noble family. You receive the benefits strictly tied to noble birth. Sadly, this does not solve your financial problems. You may have a couple of influencial relatives but you are far from succeeding to anything important.

    Effect: This feat has mostly roleplaying benefits. You are considered a noble. You are entitled to your own coat of arms and to wear any type of arms and armour restricted to the nobility, as well as to marry a noble. It is your birthright to become knighted and you only need to meet the standard requirements.

    Special: You can only select this feat at level 1.

    Succeeded to Title

    Description: You have actually succeeded to something important. You are a titled noble, a lord of the realm. Sadly, this does not necessarily entail any material benefits.

    Effect: You have a title of nobility of middle rank with all honorary benefits. You are not considered an upstart. If male, you probably still need the spurs to be taken seriously but you are now eligible for knighthood with no prerequisites.

    Special: Requirements for knighthood are lifted, gender notwithstanding. May not be selected at level 1.

    Prerequisites: Minor noble.

    Knighted on Battlefield

    Description: Kneeling in blood and dust, you have been knighted on the battlefield by the commander himself. This is a great honour, in many ways surpassing birthright, but do not expect it to fix your ancestry.

    Effect: Apart from roleplaying benefits, you are entitled to use your own coat of arms and any kind of armour or weapons. Theoretically, you are free to marry anyone. You can use a coat of arms and any kind of weapon or armour.

    Prerequisites: BAB +3, base Fort save +3, feat of valour.

    Special: The character must have accomplished a feat of valour. Nobles may still take this feat. May be selected as a bonus feat for Fighter.

    1st Lord

    Description: Once a humble knight, you have been awarded a fief for your heroic performance in battle.

    Effect: You receive all honorary and legal benefits of being a lord. You may change your personal coat of arms to reflect that of your domain or use both. You do not suffer typical upstart penalties.

    Prerequisites: Knight (e.g. the Knighted on Battlefield feat).

    Special: The character must have accomplished a remarkable feat of valour. May be selected as a bonus feat for Fighter.

    Purchased Title

    Description: You have bought your way into the ranks of the nobility. This is not an honourable way of acquiring a title, so do not expect to be treated on par with born nobles. At least behind your back.

    Effect: You receive all legal benefits of your title. You suffer full upstart penalties.

    Prerequisites: Gold. Lots.

    Appointed Heir

    Description: For whatever reason, a childless noble appointed you his heir.

    Effect: You inherit the estates and chattels of the deceased noble. You may suffer upstart penalties.

    Special: Your title is as good as the noble's last will, so beware of lawyers. Your very nobility may be questioned if you had not been a noble before succeeding. Your title may need to be confirmed by appropriate authorities, which may come at a price.

    Grunt

    Description: You have served in the infantry. You are a competent soldier, have a good understanding of team work and a most basic understanding of battle tactics.

    Effect: +1 competence bonus to any skill checks related to traditional foot combat and infantry tactics, +1 bonus to Fort Saves, +1 empathy bonus with soldiers (Diplomacy, Sense Motive).

    Special: Either level 1 or on the course of a military campaign, may be selected as a bonus feat for Fighter.

    Veteran

    Description: You have a tough campaign behind you. You are a competent soldier and can lead a small team ably. You have a certain grasp of tactics.

    Effects: +2 competence bonus to any skill checks related to traditional foot combat and infantry tactics, +2 bonus to Fort Saves, +2 empathy bonus with soldiers (Diplomacy, Sense Motive), +1 to Listen and Spot against being ambushed, +2 to Intimidate checks vs rookies, +1 to Intimidate checks vs Grunts.

    Prerequisites: +2 BAB, +2 base Fort save.

    Special: Overrides Grunt bonuses.

    Competent

    Description: You always get the job done and you radiate an aura of competence.

    Effects: +1 competence bonus to all skill checks.

    Priest Drop-out

    Description: You are a priest school drop-out.

    Effects: +2 competence/insight bonus to Knowledge (Religion) and Sense Motive checks against clerics, -2 to reaction with clerics aware of your situation.

    Special: Normally level 1 only and cannot be taken by clerics. Cleric levels cannot be taken unless the drop-out situation is resolved. If cleric levels are taken bonuses and penalties no longer apply against clerics of the same cult.

    Wizard Drop-out

    Description: You are a wizard academy drop-out.

    Effects: +2 competence/insight bonus to Spellcraft and Sense Motive checks against wizards, -2 to reaction with wizards.

    Special: Normally level 1 only and cannot be taken by wizards. Wizard levels cannot be taken unless the drop-out situation is resolved. If wizard levels are taken, bonuses and penalties no longer apply.

    Raised by a Different Race

    Description: You have been raised by a different race from your biological one.

    Effects: You receive all the non-organic benefits and drawbacks of the other race without forfeiting the organic benefits and drawbacks of your own race.

    Special: Level 1 only.

    Elven Blood

    Description: There is a faint presence of elven blood in your veins. Your elven ancestry is somewhat remarkable, if too distant to make you a half-elf.

    Effect: Your looks are somewhere between human and half-elf. You have a pale shade of infravision, as well as a +1 bonus against Sleep and Enchantment.

    Prerequisites: Human.

    Special: Level 1 only.

    Halfling Ancestor

    Description: One of your ancestors was a halfling. You are smaller than most humans and your feet are somewhat hairy. You also possess a certain mysterious affinity with food, especially in large quantities.

    Effect: Small size, noticeable semblance to a halfling. Halflings more inclined to treat you as one of their kind.

    Special: Level 1 only.

    Ladies' man

    Description: You have your way with women.

    Effect: +1 insight bonus to reaction with women, +1 insight bonus to Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Intimidate and Bluff checks and opposed checks with women. Only applies to your race and similar races.

    Special: Taking this feat is asking for trouble. Level 1 only.

    Repentant Harlot

    Description: Whether a tavern girl or a luxury courtesan, your previous career was selling your body. You have abandoned your ways and adopted a more virtuous lifestyle.

    Effect: Apart from roleplaying benefits and drawbacks, you get a +2 competence bonus to checks related with the "industry", along with a -2 reaction. You also receive +2 to checks, opposed checks and saves against any form of seduction.

    Feminazi

    Description: You hate men. You are probably lesbian deep inside.

    Effect: Anything male is your racial enemy.

    Prerequisites: Female.

    Misogynist

    Description: You hate women. You are probably gay deep inside.

    Effect: Anything female is your racial enemy.

    Prerequisites: Male.

    [ August 04, 2005, 23:34: Message edited by: chevalier ]
     
  2. Oaz Gems: 29/31
    Latest gem: Glittering Beljuril


    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2001
    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    0
    First six seem appropriate for a feudal campaign but not necessarily for generic D&D. I also like to think of feats as something a person can usually learn, not something that represents a certain social status, but there will probably be exceptions anyway.

    Grunt/Veteran seem appropriate for military campaigns, but how many PC's are warriors on the battlefield?

    Why would ex-clerics and ex-wizards know more about religion and spells, respectively, than normal clerics and wizards?

    Raised by a Different Race: this seems overpowered.

    Elven Blood: I thought infravision was gone in 3E?

    Repetant Harlot: Why would an ex-harlot know more about the "industry" than a normal harlot? Also, to what does the -2 reaction apply?

    I think it's spelled Misogynist.

    Generally, you shouldn't have to label the bonuses granted by feats - they're just miscellaneous bonuses, so they stack with everything.

    [ August 04, 2005, 22:27: Message edited by: Oaz ]
     
  3. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    Messages:
    13,342
    Likes Received:
    97
    Raised by a Different Race sounds promising. I guess you avoid the overpowering aspect of it by having to sacrifice another feat somewhere along the line to get it.
     
  4. Sniper Gems: 28/31
    Latest gem: Star Sapphire


    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2000
    Messages:
    2,772
    Likes Received:
    0
    I can see the 'Competent' feat being most useful for Rogues with their large repitioire (sp) of skills

    And the nobility and title feats look very interesting :)
     
  5. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    16,813
    Media:
    11
    Likes Received:
    57
    Gender:
    Male
    @HB: Well, if you only change the social and cultural things but not the organic ones, you don't get size bonuses/penalties, infravision, cantrip-style magic and stuff. Means you're left with skill/check bonuses, favoured race, attack vs creatures and maybe saving throws if they don't come from physical build or some innate racial magical affinity but merely from training and upbringing.

    @Oaz: Drop-outs aren't supposed to be ex-clerics or wizards. They are academy drop-outs. Imagine a level 1 fighter who got kicked out of a priest school. I said "normally" in the desc, so as not totally to remove the possibility of making use of it after level 1. Still, you're right that it could cause drop-outs to know more than those who stay. Guess it had better stay a level 1 feat.

    Raised by a different race characters switch the cultural and social benefits only, not the purely biological ones, so a human raised by the elves will likely lose the bonus feat and skill points and will surely lose the favoured class (any), instead gaining the longsword and longbow proficiency, favoured class as appropriate... and that would be it, unless the sleep (speaking of spells, not mundane sleep) and enchantment resistance is upbringing and not physiology, which I doubt. Mostly roleplaying benefits.

    I went a bit unorthodox route with the social status feats but they might be a way of forcing some events to happen. Either that or they could be given freely (outside of levelling up) when the character earns his new rank. Generic D&D I don't know. But FR, DL and Greyhawk all have knights and lords, along with hereditary titles, so the feats would be appropriate. The military feats I guess are a bit like the Yuan-ti feat or Courteous Magocracy or Mercantile Background and I got the idea from playing KotOR 1 and 2. Definitely not everyone grew up among merchants or mages but some people did. Anyway, these are just raw ideas, without any specific setting in mind. When it comes to titles, no specific title names are given (Lord is not a nobility title per se), knight is a descriptive term (it could apply to a samurai, a roman equite, a Germanic thegn, a Turkish spahi... whatever ;) ).

    Don't know about infravision. You sure it's not in 3E anymore?

    The repentant harlot is not supposed to remain active, obviously, so there's still a gap between her and the active ones. I was thinking about +2 compared to what your average person would get, sort of. A bit like empress Theodora, except it's not sure if she actually had been a prostitute. Imagine Wulfgar's Delly Curtie or some such woman.

    And you're right on the spelling. Don't know how I managed to do that.

    [ August 04, 2005, 23:45: Message edited by: chevalier ]
     
  6. Oaz Gems: 29/31
    Latest gem: Glittering Beljuril


    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2001
    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, I still don't get it. Let's say I intend with a major in Physics when I go to college, but decide isn't for me, so I switch to Philosophy. Then it makes sense that a Physics major should know more than me, a Philosophy major, right? So why would I get a bonus (being a Philosopher) to Philosphy checks when the Physicist doesn't? (Likewise, why would I get a bonus with Sense Motive checks against Physicists if Physicists don't have that bonus with each other?) Even at level 1, a wizard with the cleric drop-out feat would know more than a Cleric (not counting Intelligence bonus here).

    The best way to fix the "dropout" feats are to take away the bonuses and make Knowledge (religion or arcana) or Spellcraft as a class skill. That way, a Fighter who dropped out of being a cleric can have a better Knowledge (religion) as a real same-level cleric, but not more.

    ---

    Raised by a Different Race: I get it. It's still overpowered. Why would my human wizard need to take Martial Proficiency (longbow) when I can just say, "Maximilian was raised by elves, so he's proficient with the longbow. And shortbow, and longsword and rapier." There should probably be some kind of trade-in for this.

    Then shouldn't all prostitutes get +2 on the check? But that doesn't make sense either, since clerics don't get an automatic +2 on Knowledge (religion) and wizards don't get an automatic +2 Knowledge (arcana).

    And yes, infravision was replaced with low-light vision for elves, halflings, half-elves, and gnomes, and darkvision for dwarves.

    I think I forgot mention that Competence is far overpowered. Skill Focus gives a net bonus of +3, a few others give a net bonus of +4, but Competence gives, what, a net bonus of +20?

    [ August 05, 2005, 02:10: Message edited by: Oaz ]
     
  7. kuemper Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2005
    Messages:
    8,926
    Likes Received:
    8
    OT, but I gotta know: when did halflings get low-light vison? I knew they had infravision in 2e, yet I thought in 3e that got dropped and they see like humans now.
     
  8. Gnolyn Lochbreaker Gems: 13/31
    Latest gem: Ziose


    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2001
    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
    0
    The nobility feats are interesting, but I'm not convinced those attributes are best described as feats. They describe a limited aspect of social class, but in the gameworld every PC and NPC would be placed somewhere in that social spectrum. Also, most of the ranks described are granted by someone other than the PC, and can't actually be gained or learned through the PC's experience or training.

    You could take the basic idea and develop a social class system, in which different ranks bring different attributes. Within a campaign world, all PCs and NPCs would be placed somewhere within that class system, with some room for movement up, down and even across the social classes (e.g., common-born may never attain true nobility, but could buy it, or win it through a great feat). Truly high ranks should not be for PC's though; very unbalancing in terms of power, but titled ranks also come with hefty responsibilities that an adventurer could not meet.

    The exception would be knighthood, which doesn't describe a social rank, but a military one. If a PC wanted to become a knight, they should have to find an order that will accept them. Really all the character is doing is attempting to join an organization - such as the Knights of the Watch or the Knights of Dispatch from Greyhawk. Becoming a knight in a given order will have different requirements, possibly even noble birth, or at least sponsorship by a Lord, but it's more than social class or 'happenstance'.

    Have to agree that 'Raised by a Different Race' is overpowering. And unbalanced, since the non-biological bonuses of races differ greatly. Raised by Orcs (half-orcs) would result in almost no benefits. Similarly, raised by Halfings or raised by Gnomes would be of little use as the majority of their racial bonuses are a result of size and nature. It would also be hard to argue which traits are a result of birth, and what's cultural. You could be more specific, and create a single feat for each race that makes sense, in which case you can spell out the bonuses, similar to the Elven/Halfling ancestors.
     
  9. Oaz Gems: 29/31
    Latest gem: Glittering Beljuril


    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2001
    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh, that's right, halflings don't have any fancy vision. My fault.
     
  10. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    16,813
    Media:
    11
    Likes Received:
    57
    Gender:
    Male
    @Gnolyn: Depends if we're talking historic knighthood or something else. Historically, you only needed someone entitled and willing to confer the rank on you. Orders were mostly religious, with chastity vows, and weren't too popular. It was a nobility (gentility in the English system) rank, with a coat of arms and the ability to marry up to the royalty. In some roleplaying settings, knights are mostly grouped in orders but even in Greyhawk you don't need to join any organisation. Neither historically nor in RPG settings is it a military rank. It's a social rank immediately above a simple unknighted armiger that gives you a place in the cavalry instead of infantry with commoners or a leadership position more or less the same way as nobles and rich people didn't start their military careers from simple private soldiers. Every male noble and royal of age had to be knighted and a knight was a natural recipient of lordship positions, unlike a simple armiger and definitely contrary to a commoner. Doesn't mean every knight was scheduled to become a lord at some point but he was definitely there, with the lords and not the commoners. The British system is somewhat confusing because it has a number of different definitions of nobility for different purposes and the most often used one considers only lords (peers) to be noble, so not even their spouses and children make it (they and their offspring are gentry). In continental European systems and the Scottish system, anyone armigerous is a noble, except the Polish system where every male armiger is a noble and a knight and there's no such thing as gentry. At any rate, knighthood is social, not military. ;)

    You're somewhat right about the raised by a different race feats but then no one makes the player take any of such feats. Ideally, such things should be solved by roleplaying alone but there could be a way of "forcing" things to happen by taking a feat rather than bargaining with the DM. Well, anyway, the benefit mostly means you have received elven, dwarven, human or other upbringing despite being biologically of a different race. Sort of like Aerie's gnomish thing.

    [ August 06, 2005, 15:32: Message edited by: chevalier ]
     
  11. Errol Gems: 23/31
    Latest gem: Black Opal


    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2001
    Messages:
    1,547
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    [​IMG] Edit: I should have read chev's post properly :p

    Just a note about the Drop-Out feat. I think to lessen the effects of what Oaz was talking about, simply place a restriction forbidding the Drop-out to take up that class.

    Example:
    Joseph's parents were both Clerics of Lathander, and so naturally he was indoctrined into the Lathanderite faith as a student. After a year, he realised priesthood was not for him, and decided to persue the more martial role of the Paladin instead, serving Lathander by sword rather than prayer.

    In game terms, Joseph is a level 3 Paladin with the Priest School Drop Out feat, but cannot take up the Cleric Class.

    Or you could have a Sorcerer with the Wizard School Drop Out feat, because he was cast out of a Magic School for exhibiting sorcerer abilities. As a result, he can never learn Wizardry.

    I think the Drop Out feat should also be extended to most classes though?
     
  12. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    16,813
    Media:
    11
    Likes Received:
    57
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, the restriction is there. I just didn't want to make the class totally inaccessible, but simply assign a hefty penalty towards the bonuses from the feat if the character were to take that class.

    It wouldn't be a good feat to award to a player upon leaving an academy already with some levels in the class as, indeed, he would know more than those who stayed. But, if Joseph decided to become a priest after getting 10 levels as a fighter, it wouldn't be so unrealistic for him to have better religion checks than your average fighter(10) turning cleric(1).

    But if Joseph becomes a paladin, then we probably have a problem. He can take religion(4) at start, so with the bonus from the feat, he will indeed know more than a normal paladin or normal cleric. This is not necessarily bad, as we can assume that dropping out of the priest school happened before training as a paladin and his training as a paladin didn't repeat things he already had learnt, so they taught him new things for a higher total. But I'm sure Oaz would find a weak point in this. ;)

    And yeah, most classes could have a drop-out, but my first idea was someone who dropped out from a school rather than a person who simply interrupted some training. You could, however, drop out of a military (fighter) academy, paladin school or apprenticeship with a Jed... I mean, paladin. :p

    I don't really think, however, that it could work for a barbarian because that class looks too self-taught. A fighter they may teach you to be in the beginning but it's not like you can't learn new tricks and gain more toughness on the course of your travels. Of course, we can establish some psychological change, such as a barbarian denouncing his tribe, going urban or whatever. Or a fighter hanging up the sword. Or a rogue converting into a law-abiding citizen. But I suppose this is already reflected and covered by the distribution of class levels and the sequence in which they are taken, as in, you stop taking rogue levels and go fighter ever after. Or you switch from barbarian to fighter for the closest seven levels you gain.

    Still, I really like the priest/wizard school drop-out idea and wouldn't like to turn away from it. ;)
     
  13. Oaz Gems: 29/31
    Latest gem: Glittering Beljuril


    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2001
    Messages:
    3,140
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, I don't think that makes sense either. Let's say Joseph were instead a wizard, and took two levels in it, and therefore had 5 ranks in Knowledge (religion). He then decides being a cleric is better and takes two levels in Cleric, and takes 2 ranks of Knowledge (religion), so he has the max ranks at 4th level. Then let's say he has 13 Int.

    Joseph the wizard/sorcerer has +8 to Knowledge (religion). We don't give him another +2 to that skill because we don't assume that his training as a wizard is synergistic wtih his training as a cleric

    If Joseph were a Paladin2/Cleric2 with 13 Int, he'd have a +8 to Knowledge (religion).

    If Joseph were a Paladin4 with the cleric drop-out feat, he'd have +10 to Knowledge (religion). Huh?
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.