1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

2nd vs 3rd edition

Discussion in 'Icewind Dale 2' started by jorj82, Feb 2, 2008.

  1. jorj82 Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    1
    i've seen a few "mods" or whatever that can convert games play like other games (tutu, bg2 to 3rd edition, etc). does anyone know of anything that will let me play iwd2 in the 2nd edition rules? i've been playing with dice since i could read and i really hate the new rules.
    ps-pool of radiance rules, myth drannor drools
     
  2. Redrake Gems: 7/31
    Latest gem: Tchazar


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Doubtful. There is a mod at G3 that is in the works and is going to allow IWD1 to be played with 3E, but the other way around, no.
     
  3. Silverstar Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    4,050
    Likes Received:
    15
    Gender:
    Male
    Not many people are interested in 2E unfourtunately. Making a reverse step may not worth it in their opinion.
     
  4. Redrake Gems: 7/31
    Latest gem: Tchazar


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Not exactly. The interest is there, but it would take a lot of work to convert not only the game, but also the rules. IWD2 has plenty of quests and dialogues kit-specific or subrace specific. Also how could you convert the monk trials from IWD2 to IWD1?
     
  5. Cal Jones

    Cal Jones I'm not dead yet

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    9
    Well, BG2 used a modified 2E ruleset that allowed monks. I guess something could be done along those lines.
    Having said that, although the 3E rules felt weird to me at first, I came to enjoy them a lot over the course of IWD2.
     
  6. Proteus_za

    Proteus_za

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    12
    Me too. Now I love the multiclassing freedom. I'm even getting used to rogues instead of thieves.

    I do wish Baldurs Gate II had been a better success.

    If only gemRB allowed one to select a game and a ruleset to use with it...
     
  7. Redrake Gems: 7/31
    Latest gem: Tchazar


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    What do you mean? Baldur's Gate II is a better success. Unless you meant the unfinished Icewind Gate II project.
    Conversions between BG2 and IWD games are not exactly easy. They use different files when it comes to spells and animations. It sounds easy on paper, but is not easy at all. I know, I've tried importing BG2 spells to IWD1 for my mod and I ran quickly in a lot of problems.
     
  8. Proteus_za

    Proteus_za

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    12
    Sorry I meant the conversion project that put BG2 into the IWD2 engine. Was called Icewind Gate and then baldurs dale. yeah - I do agree that BG2 is one of the best games of all times, and the fact that it still has such a strong following is a very good sign. Note to developers - develop a good 4th ed party based D&D game and you will have the eternal devotion of gamers. If you do it right of course.
     
  9. Redrake Gems: 7/31
    Latest gem: Tchazar


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    4E? I'm sorry, but 4E is going to be the worst edition. No way you'll be able to convert any game to it. I don't know what you've heard about 4E but is going to be a huge disaster. Many things that we liked in the previous editions are removed to transform the realms into LOTR movie combined with Harry Potter.
     
  10. Proteus_za

    Proteus_za

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    12
    I admit that what I've heard sounds a bit too much like WoW or something similar.


    but, I'll wait and see.

    I'd settle for a decent 3.5E game.

    In fact, I cant think of a single reason to prefer 2e to 3e. It has better multiclassing, it allows clerics to use any weapon, weapon proficiencies are much better.

    I dont think the implementation in IWD2 is all that hot - it lacks many feats, especially ones to do with two weapon fighting - but its still fun.
     
  11. Redrake Gems: 7/31
    Latest gem: Tchazar


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    In 3E there is not multiclassing. Dual classing is allowed to everyone. Some parts are good, but others are not. For example, feats and skills are good, but how some of the features in 2E are treated is not. I don't like what they did to half-elves who used to be one of the best races in 2E. In 3E they are wimps.
     
  12. Proteus_za

    Proteus_za

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    12
    Well, its not the same as either really. But seeing as dual classing in 2e means you start your 2nd class at level 1 and without access to your base class abilities, its not really that either.

    That is true - half elves have the misfortune of becoming the most useless race. Not sure whether I like the favoured class idea, although I kinda understand why its there.
     
  13. raptor Gems: 16/31
    Latest gem: Shandon


    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    1
    Heh, this discussion keeps coming up, and is basically summarised into opinion vs opinion. There can be no winner, becose it is a matter of taste.

    But yeah, there are way to many things that would proove impossible to convert over. The closest thing I can think of would be to make an "aprox", where each class automatically got X skills (somehow without player noticing) or classes such as rogue (thief for the rest of you) and wizard would soon become useless. Try a Rogue with no stealth, open lock, or trap removal. Or a wizard that will miscast a spell on 1dmg taken at any time. Won't work in IWD2. Feats could just be set to various weapon proficiencies, and it will technically work just like 2E (Entire feat system is basically weapon proficiencies for fighter in 2e, gain new every 3 levels and put into weapon focus and specialisation).

    You could edit every single armor to be type "leather armor" that should let you use at least 20 dex or so without getting hampered by armor (Best change in entire 3E if you ask me, sick of dex 18 wearing full plate!).

    Your best bet would indeed be GemRB whenever it will be in a ready enough state to mix one games rulesets (iwd1 for this example) with annother game (iwd2 in this example) and still be full 100% playable. Last time I checked it should have BG2 playable with not to many problems, so might take a while yet (But damn those guys are awesome!)

    Personally I want to play all the other games in 3E, so I'm the opposite of corse. I generally make pseudo 3E convertions to the 2E games when I play them, or I get frustrated long before I ever hit level 2.
     
  14. jorj82 Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    1
    like i said, i've been playing d&d with *DICE* since i could read, that's 20 years now. i like the *OLD* rules so much i still have the original pool of radiance series on my pc, i've even converted the entire series to pen & paper to play with real people. i feel the same way about 3rd edition now as i did about 2nd edition years ago. lets hope it grows on me the same way. it just bothers me now. sometimes i'll see my ac of 30 and panic (oh no i can't even dodge a goblin) and then i remember the new rules. oh well, i'll finish iwd than give the new rules another go.
     
  15. raptor Gems: 16/31
    Latest gem: Shandon


    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2005
    Messages:
    808
    Likes Received:
    1
    Well, many others here have played the P&P (Pen & Paper), or "Dice" as you call it, as well. I've played and mostly DM'ed for about 8 years now, both 2E and 3E/3.5E )Hey I only said I have done so, not that I'm good at it!). I was oppossed to the 3E when it was released, having just gotten used to 2E etc, but after a few months of playing I couldn't go back.

    Yet, I have buddies of mine that still play 2E (or some bastardised version of it anyways), that curses 3E and anything related to it as horrible and powergaming etc (Ironically, to my experience it is the opposite... but never mind that).

    So yeah, it takes all kinds to the human race to make.

    Heck, if you want to get specific about it, even IWd1 with HoW epxpantion is getting a bit far away from 2E, with all the fancy upgrades to classes etc, ability to change thief's backstab to sneak attack, bards new songs etc. Not to mention BG2 that is even more deviating from 2E rules, they specifically mentinoned somewhere (forgot where) that the sorcerer, barbarian, monk classes was added becose of rumors and leaked information they had gotten about the new and upcomming 3E rules at the time. ;)

    In the same way as IWD2 is about 50% 3E and 50% 2E remains (Becose the engine is a bit to limited to fully translate everything, since it was made for 2E games).

    Uhm..... /rant off ?
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.