What Sorcerer spells to pick?

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Hey peops! Since I'm not very familiar with playing sorcerers, I'd like to tap on your pool of wisdom.

I'm playing a Wild Elf Sorcerer/Bard. Her tasks are being the Face, Archer and semi-bombardier. But I have no clue of what spells to pick. I usually play wizards and clerics and remember their spells as seems fit for the occasion.

My question for you: What spells do you advice me to pick and to avoid for my sorcerer/bard?

She'll have about twice as much Sorcerer levels than bard levels. Skills are mainly focussed on spellcraft (until 10, I guess), diplomacy and bluff.

Other spellcasters in my party are a Morninglord of Lathander, with ** spellfocus Evocation and aiming for Spirit of Flame, and a wizard for utilityspells and the like.
(other partymembers are 2 fighters and a rogue/monk)

Any advice is welcome.

Hasta la pasta!
Oh... btw: I have no mods installed.
(I just cranked up some abilities with DK2 'cos I got sick and tired of encumbered partymembers)

 

Well how about this (for lvl19 sorc)

lvl1
Ray of enfeeblement - fun with hard hitters
Minor Mirror image - meh
Chromatic orb - sounds good in theory
Shield - protection
Grease - area disable spell

(nothing really useful left, identify is on bard)

lvl2
Mirror image
Blur
Web
Cats
Eagles

(bulls is on cleric, invisibility and luck on bard)

lvl3
Slow - incredible
Ghost Armor -protection for tanks
Blink
Magic Circle vs Evil - or maybe prot from Fire

(nothing really useful left, but damage spells)

lvl4
Stoneskin -protection for tanks
Malison
Improved invisibility
Spirit Armor - protection for tanks

(Emotion line is on bard, nothing useful else left)

lvl5
Chaos
Lower Resistance
Cloudkill
Dominate Person

(nothing useful left)


lvl6
Mass Haste
Tenser's Transformation
Acid Fog

(nothing really useful left)

Lvl7
Suffocate
Mordenkainens's Sword
-pick any (like Seven Eyes)

(not even enough spells to fill the present slots)


lvl8
Powerword: Blind
Fiery Cloud
Mind Blank

(nothing else appeals to me here )

lvl9
Executioner's Eyes - sick damage
Mass Dominate - ahaha

(wail and meteor swarm are cool, but so are the above spells, hard to pick)

 

You already have a wizard to cast the needed spells, so it's not too important which spells you select for your sorceress/bard. It's more important what you want to cast than what is powerful. Be aware that you'll only reach level 16-17 during the game, that's 5 bard and 11-12 sorcerer levels. You might want to keep the levels even until you get bard level 5 for the powerful song and take only sorcerer levels afterwards.
Since the wizard levels much faster leave level dependent party buffs to him, the same applies to spells your party has only to cast once per day like emotion hope and spells which become obsolete later.
Concentrate on self-buffs, self-protections and combat spells. It's hard to give general advice since there are so many ways to play this character.

As Level 1 bard spells I'd select cure light wounds, so you can do some really spontaneous healing. I'd avoid PfE since it gets obsolete with magic circle against evil.
As level 2 spell don't choose eagle's splendor, have the high level wizard cast it, if it lasts longer than a rest you get bonus spells. I also wouldn't select mirror image and leave it to the sorcerer who can cast this important spell more often. Blindness, deafness, delay poison, power word: sleep, summon monster II and vocalize aren't worth taking.
I'd choose invisibility, cat's grace and cure moderate wounds.

powerful sorcerer spells:
1: chromatic orb, magic missile, shield
2: mirror image, death armor
3: fireball
4: improved invisibility (the mage's higher level stoneskin can absorb more HP), fire shield, ice storm
5: chaos

Half of the most powerful spells I never cast, so feel free to choose what you want to cast. Keep on mind that this is only a backup mage who is very useful when singing the 1st and 5th level songs. Only every 3rd combat round there's time left to do something else.

 

You can't really have too many castings of Emotion: Hope, unless you plan on only buffing once per day and resting as soon as your buffs wear out. Each casting is good for 50 game rounds and since it affects your whole party at once, I can't fathom why you would cast anything else in this level until you can keep that buff going every single moment you do combat.

 

If you're used to BG or IWD1, you may rule out the save-based combat spells (i.e. emotion hopelessness, disintegrate, hold, etc). Don't. They're wonderfully powerful in IWD2, especially if you can take casting feats in those schools of magic.

 

One reason: say you've got several STR 18 (+2 to +5 from buffs) guys throwing hammers of thunder and stuff for 1d8 + (+6 to +8 for STR and magic) + 1d6 electrical = about 15 points of damage on average. Hope would boost you to 17 points of damage per hit, but it takes time to cast which could otherwise be spent beating on stuff, and it shortens the combat by only about 15%, thus decreasing the amount of damage your decoy takes by 15%. Stoneskin likely decreases the damage your decoy takes by something a lot closer to 90%, AND there's no micromanagement hassle since Stoneskin lasts for 10 minutes/level instead of a measly 3 minutes (50 rounds).

To the extent that dungeon-crawling is an exercise in resource-management, the boost Hope gives to your attack capability can sometimes be inferior to a defensive boost from Stoneskin or Improved Invisiblity or Otiluke's Resilient Sphere[1], especially if spell durations are a concern. YMMV, not all parties are spell-limited, some people enjoy boosting performance for its own sake ("I just did 80 points of damage in one hit!"), etc., etc.

-Max

[1] It doesn't even have to be a cheesy situation where you purposefully cast it on your decoy. ORS also works as a "panic button" in case your sorc gets swarmed by monsters in a crowded situation. I have a low-level mule who has been saved a couple of times by the ORS built into the House of Despana insignia that you get from Malavon's sister.

 

If you want to protect the whole party with stoneskin or iron skins it's a good idea to select emotion:hope for the sorcerer since your mage won't get more than 5 level 4 spells per day while the bard5/sorcerer11 can have 8 level 4 spells per day with a lucky eagle's splendor.

 

Which raises the question, why is your mage a wizard instead of a sorcerer?

(And why are you wasting stoneskins on people who aren't supposed to be in melee combat?)

-Max

 

Well, the OP did say that he's not very familiar with playing sorcs.... which is why he plays wizzies.

 

Oh, I thought we were talking about a hypothetical case. You're right, the OP does have a pure wizard.

-Max

 

I can understand the desire for a single wizard in IWD2, especially if the Sorc is multi-classing. That being said, I do think the Sorc is more desirable in IWD2.

 

I certainly agree, NOG. Sorcs are much better than Wizzies in IWD2 (IMHO). I do think that wizzies make exceptional secondary mages due to their immense flexibility, thru their ability to change their spellbooks. Also, multi-classing a sorc? (well beyond the not too terribly uncommon Sorc X/Pal 1) *shudder* It just doesn't seem like a good idea at all.

 

Doesn't seem like a good idea for any intended pure caster. The thing is, casting abilities don't stack, while attack bonuses and saves do.

 

Pertaining to non-HoF games, I can't remember ever needing the 8th or 9th level arcane spells in this game. They are awesome, no doubt, but not necessary. Multi classing your arcane spellcasters is not a handicap, but allows for a more well rounded character. Better BAB, Saves, etc... especially the Pal1/SorX build. Great Saves and better weapon selection. Or adding a couple of fighter levels, giving WF-Bows and Rapidshot to your spellcaster is nice as well. Makes him/her less spell dependant. HoF is another matter though.

 

Blades, I think that it's one thing to take a single level of another class, such as the Sorc X/Pal 1 build. You get a lot of value from that 1 level of pally... all of the weapon feats, the pally's CHA bonus to saves, etc.

But a Sorc 2X/Bard X build is much different. I don't think that it makes for a "more rounded character". I think that it makes for a much weaker character.

 

In the Bard/Sor case, yes, it is a handi-cap. Sorcerers, for example, get a ton of spells to cast in their daily allotment, but still not enough to just cast fireball every round. They still need to be able to support in other areas and for me, actually doing some damage with the missle weapons is nice. Now, if you have a Heavy melee party with one nuker, maybe not so much. Depends on your playing style. But if you like to have a mixed force with less tanking options, having an Arcane Caster with combat capabilities sure is nice in a pinch and broadens your combat options.

IMO, this is true for the Clerics and Druids as well. There are only a small amount of truly critical spells you need in this game, whether Divine or Arcane. None of which are level 8 or 9. You can easily beat the end game with creativity and ingenuity and w/out Abi-Dalzims Horrid Wilting(Great spell!). If you can take down the Guardian w/out using level 8 or 9 spells, there is nothing else that needs their use to defeat. For me the game is more enjoyable when not employing those spell levels, they make the game too easy.

 

IMHO, everyone who is not a melee character and has sufficient DEX should always take Rapid Shot, completely independent of whether they have any fighter levels.

The chief benefit I can see to sticking a fighter level on a Pal1/SorcX is that a Pal1/Fght1/SorcX maxes out at BAB +16 instead of +15, which gives him 33% more attacks (4 vs. 3). The extra feats might be nice too, especially if you're relying on a single sorc for all of your Ench/Nec/Trans/Evoc spell focii simultaneously. The only thing it costs you is 5.5 points in DBFB damage (assuming Spirit of Flame), which is nothing in HoF.

-Max

P.S. Blades of Vanatar, I love your .sig!

---------- Added 7 hours, 3 minutes and 47 seconds later... ----------

One more thought, directed at the OP:

What are the two or three spells of each level which you have your wizard memorize multiple copies of? These are the spells your sorc should learn.

-Max

 

For spells get stoneskins, mirror image and skull trap. Very powerful combo especially if your high on levels.

 

Cool! Thanks for the input, people! Among the interesting stuff about character creation, I found some sound advice for picking spells (kmonsters pick/tips complemented with some nice other tips).

Heh... Thanks for that! I would have ruled them out, yeah.

Thanks dudes/dudettes!

 

For any spellcaster, you select the spells which most significantly turn the battle in your favour (duh!), always thinking how that round of spell casting could have been better spent (either via casting another spell or attacking with a ranged weapon). As such, there are only about five spells (max.) worth taking for each spell tier.

Ones which are highly recommended include:
Lvl 1: Chromatic Orb
Lvl 2: Mirror Image, Web
Lvl 3: Skull Trap, Slow or Stinking Cloud, Flame ARrow
Lvl 4: Improved Invisibility, Stoneskin, Mordy's Force Missiles
Lvl 5: Cone of Cold and Sunfire
Lvl 6: Mass Haste, Chain Lightning, Disintegrate
Lvl 7: Delayed Blast Fireball, Prismatic Spray or Finger of Death, Mordy's Sword
Lvl 8: Horrid Wilting
Lvl 9: Mass Dominate, WotB