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The Conventions

Discussion in 'Alley of Lingering Sighs' started by Aldeth the Foppish Idiot, Aug 26, 2008.

  1. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    The Democratic National Convention (DNC) is this week, and the Republican National Convention (RNC) starts next week. Here's a link to the Conventions website. All of the current coverage is obviously about the Democrats, because the Republicans' Convention hasn't started yet.

    Both Conventions are largely feel-good events for both parties. It's where they formally announce their nominees (even though that's been known for months) and really start to get the campaign message out. Obama and McCain have already been taking shots at each other for the past several months, but these next two weeks are the official kickoff of the campaign season. It's pretty much non-stop now for the next two months.

    There are also several key party speakers on the agenda for each night. Monday night, we had speeches by Ted Kennedy and Michelle Obama. I thought Michelle's was fantastic in that she portrayed herself and Barack as normal people who came from rather humble beginnings. (No doubt that was a counter to McCain's "Obama is the biggest celebrity in the world" ads.) As for Ted Kennedy, it was just nice to seem him on stage again for what will almost certainly be his last DNC.

    The rest of the speakers this week are:

    Tuesday: Mark Warner (former Virginia governor) - is listed as this year's "keynote speaker". That's the position Obama had 4 years ago that really launched his political career. The only time I have heard Warner speak previous to this is one year he gave the Democratic response to Bush's State of the Union Address. Other than that, I don't know much about him.

    Featured Speaker Tuesday - Hillary Clinton. nuff said.

    Wednesday - Bill Clinton is not the featured speaker, as that goes to the VP, Joe Biden, but I imagine many people will be more interested in what Bill has to say.

    Thursday - Barack Obama - at Invesco Field, not the Convention Center.

    John McCain is still finalizing the speaking list for the RNC next week. The only thing that has formally been announced is former President George W. Bush (not the current president - the current president's dad) and current Vice President Dick Cheney will both speak on Monday night. I have been unable to find who the keynote speaker on Tuesday will be. Wednesday will go to the yet-to-be-named VP, and Thursday will be McCain, himself.
     
  2. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    Hmm.. no other posts so far? So sad. I'd just like to point out, that while I have never held any particular fondness for Hillary, her speech last night was outstanding. Barack could not have asked for a more ringing endorsement.

    If you missed it, MSNBC has the whole speech right here. The whole thing is about 20 minutes long, but it's worth the time. Really - I mean that and I'm saying it with a straight face, not tongue-in-cheek.
     
  3. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I agree - I thought she did a terrific job, from the words she said, to the way she said them, to her body language.

    Warner did OK as well. I thought the guy from Montana was a bit annoying, though, because all he seemed to talk about was oil.

    It'll be interesting to hear what Bill and Biden have to say tonight.
     
  4. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I agree too - Hillary even warmed the cackles of this Double-blackbelt Hillary-hater's little heart. I think she did a very effective job, and hit all the right notes - especially this bit:

    "I want you to ask yourselves: Were you in this campaign just for me? Or were you in it for that young Marine and others like him? Were you in it for (blah blah)"

    This is an argument I've made a few times in regards to the Hillary supporters who plan to revolt and go for McCain. She was basically appealing to their common sense, which was great. No rational person can support the positions Hillary does and vote for the exact opposite in McCain out of spite, when Obama's positions are very similar and above all else, he's a Democrat, and so are they. They'd be doing her no favors by sabotaging this election, and I do hope her speech made most of them realize that. Some of them are too batty to be reasoned with, and that's fine. But I think this was enough to send a clear message for supporters to vote not with the chip on their shoulders, but with the head.

    I also thought Michelle Obama's speech was extremely impressive. The rest of the convention has been pretty boring, and I'm a little disappointed at how disorganized it appears, and especially how little they're hitting McCain. Because as we all know, the Republican convention is going to nothing but 4 nights of slime. They have no record to stand on, no policy proposals that are either better than Obama's or have any credibility after the last 8 years, and no positive argument for why Republicans should be given another chance. They're going to throw out every terrorist reference, "Hussein," "cut-and-run," "raise your taxes" and "Paris Hilton" they can get their hands on. The truly depressing thing is, it'll likely be at least modestly effective. But such is the ridiculous state of our politics right now.
     
  5. Cernak Gems: 12/31
    Latest gem: Moonstone


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    I too thought Hillary's speech very effective, though not as deeply moving as her concession speech a couple of months ago, which will likely be the oratorical highpoint of her political career. But her husband outdid her tonight, and pointed the way to a Democratic campaign strategy with his slashing attacks on the Bush administrations many incompetencies. Obvious stuff in a way, but it sometimes seems to be difficult to see that the straw man is made of straw, and that it's perversely enjoyable to see him shredded.
     
  6. Drew

    Drew Arrogant, contemptible, and obnoxious Adored Veteran

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    Where the Bush administration is concerned, we have no need of straw men. ;) The truth is bad enough.
     
  7. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    Actually, while I liked Bill Clinton's and Biden's speeches, I'm still inclined to say that Hillary has given the best speech thus far at the convention. I also find it odd that Cernak thought Bill did the most to point out flaws on the Republican side. It appeared to me that Biden spent half his speech going on attack mode.

    One thing the Democrats have to be careful on. It is fine to link McCain to Bush. They belong to the same party, they hold similar viewpoints, and thier voting records of the past four years are extremely similar. However, the Democrats have to do more than just link McCain to Bush. They are not running against Bush. They have to show how Obama is better than McCain. That's why I though Biden's speech was the more attack-oriented speech than Clinton's, because he went after McCain, whereas Clinton went after the Republican party at large.

    Keep in mind also that Bill and Joe's speeches had different purposes. Bill was not trying to upstage Hillary (and I don't think he did). Bill was out there to offer a concilitory tone to Obama, and try to further convince Hillary supporters to vote for Obama. Conversely, the traditional role of the VP is to be the attack dog. Biden filled that role very well last night. It's because of these differences that it is difficult to directly compare the two.
     
  8. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    So Obama just finished his acceptance speech, and it was very impressive. Even my mom, who up until tonight was an "I'm not voting for a muslim named Barack Hussein Obama" old-school Idaho Democrat, was stunned by the end. I was too. This is the kind of leader I've wanted to follow ever since I became interested in politics. The candidate we saw tonight did not spend an hour floating lofty platitudes and the same-old touchy-feely liberal rhetoric. He made a devastating case for his candidacy, the disaster that was the last 8 years and how liberal policies are going to fix it. He answered every charge that has been thrown at him by the right - he has no record, he's all talk, he's a celebrity, he's not a real American - directly and turned them all right around on them. I tuned in to FOX News after the speech and even Bill Kristol was impressed and unafraid to admit how formidable a candidate he was. Bill Kristol.

    He made a devastating case against McCain...all without attacking his character one bit, and that makes a very clear contrast between not only himself and McCain, but of the right in general. Finally, we have a grown up with some integrity running for President. If America doesn't elect this man, we don't deserve to be on top anymore. "We're better than the last 8 years" is damn right.

    EDIT: Best zinger of the night goes to Bill Richardson. "McCain may pay hundreds of dollars for his loafers, but we'll be the ones paying for his flip-flops!" Get that man a cold one. :beer:
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2008
  9. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    It was really a successful convention, as all the major players did quite well and hit all the right points regarding where we are as a nation, at the moment, and where we need to be. It was really very good. It was almost enough to make me want to become a Democrat...what a long way they have come from being the party of "me too," of 2002, to the Party of Leadership...stay tuned.
     
  10. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Yes, it was very good, although given all the things he said/promised/suggested he could do, I'm surprised he didn't mention his ability to walk on water. But anyway, it was preaching to the choir. I'm sure we'll hear the same sentiments being expressed by Republicans next week about McCain.
     
  11. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    Maybe he's saving that one for later.
     
  12. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    @ Splunge,

    Though the speech was given in front of the choir, it wasn't for them - it was for the independents and undecided voters out there. Many, many of whom watch BOTH conventions, and most Americans don't really start paying attention to the election until the conventions anyway. The Democrats are now united behind him and for the first time in many years, edge out the Republicans in terms of voter identification. McCain is suffering from an enormous enthusiasm gap and they can't GIVE tickets away for his speech next week, and his venue only seats 12,000. If Obama even gets close to half of those indies and undecideds out there, he's pretty much home.

    As for his promises, some are a little grandiose - but honestly, I really don't think many of them would be too difficult to accomplish with a little priority-shifting. He did lay out how he plans to accomplish most of it, both in the speech and through his campaign materials. But this may only be clear to me because I follow politics closely and have actually read his campaign materials, and I'm well aware most Americans do not. So you may have a point, and many may consider it pie in the sky. Still, I'd like to think pie in the sky is more appetizing to reasonable voters than another helping of the same old sh*t sandwich. :)
     
  13. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    It's been said here before but I'll say it again because it is relevant to this convention business: you people really do have the most long winded and convoluted election process imaginable! It goes forever! Why aren't all these people at work? Why not just vote for the president and get it done with? Who is doing Obama's day job while all this is going on? Surely he has some real senator work that he should be doing?

    Seriously, your political process could use some major Kaizen simplification.
     
  14. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I thought most of the speeches were fluff -- no real substance. But then again, most speeches are only fluff. A good team of speech writers and an actor-like delivery will take a politician very far.

    I'm still waiting to hear how either candidate will help with improving the dollar.
     
  15. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    My favorite zinger of the convention came from Ted Stickland of Ohio - "George H.W. Bush was born on third and thought he hit a triple. George W. Bush was born on third and stole second."

    I am very surprised that the Republicans cancelled the evening events at the convention last night. They said they did it because of Hurricane Gustav hitting Louisiana, although it appears things weren't that bad there. Lots of power outages from downed power lines, but no levee breaking calamities as we saw with Katrina three years ago. The reason I'm surprised is you only get four days at the Convention, and they basically gave up one of them.

    Another potential problem for later in the week is that Hanna is expected to increase to a Level 2 hurricane and make landfall in Florida or Georgia on Thursday evening. I cannot imagine that McCain would cancel his speech on Thursday because of that. The other thing happening on Thursday is the start of the NFL season, which is also going to cut into the number of people watching McCain. I can say for certain that I would likely be watching McCain if it were not for the start of the NFL season. If I were McCain, I'd shuffle the events around and have both Palin and himself speak on Wednesday evening.
     
  16. Drew

    Drew Arrogant, contemptible, and obnoxious Adored Veteran

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    Considering the fact that economists fear deflation even more that they fear inflation, I sincerely hope improving the dollar isn't too high a priority. What we need to do is slow its decline...preferably to a point at which our inflation is lower than everyone else's inflation.
     
  17. NOG (No Other Gods)

    NOG (No Other Gods) Going to church doesn't make you a Christian

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    Aldeth, the reason they cut the first day short is because everyone was calling Gustav the next Katrina. The last thing the Republicans wanted was a picture of them partying while Gustav leveled N.O. They were being cautious, which is good, and Gustav ended up being comparatively minor, which is also good.
     
  18. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    Yeah, I get that NOG - in fact I said as much in the prior post. I also commented that now that they have done so, will they do the same thing if Hanna hits on Thrusday. That and the NFL game. I'm wondering if McCain is considering moving up his speech to tonight when he will have a definite window of opportunity.

    As you are aware, I tend to vote Democrat - but I also am a political junkie and did watch the RNC last night - seeing Laura and George Bush, as well as Fred Thompson speak. I would have watched Monday if they had not cancelled. I'll watch tonight for sure. But on Thursday, I probably won't - I'll be tuning into football.
     
  19. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I was impressed - but was left scratching my head - with Fred Thompson last night. If he'd had a tenth of the energy during the primaries that he had last night, he'd be at the head of the ticket right now. A lot of what he had to say was partisan BS of course, but considering the venue and the speaker who was following him (Leiberman), I wouldn't expect much else. :)

    That said - the convention seems kinda flat to me, and certainly lacks the energy and excitement of the Dem convention (that may change tonight, we'll see). One thing I did notice though: "Liberal media," "the angry left," "protecting the unborn is beyond his paygrade," and a non-stop nostalgia-rama about past Republican presidents...with no mention whatsoever of the last 8 years. None. The Republicans are asking for 4 more years of the Presidency, yet they don't have a single accomplishment of the last 8 years upon which to base that request, and are instead building their case on old culture-war buzzwords. They look far more desperate than they should, even if they are desperate. Also, I think a sitting president stooping to use the childishly loaded words "the angry left" is unprecedented.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2008
    Chandos the Red likes this.
  20. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    Jack was a handful last night, and we didn't get him into bed until 9:45, so unfortunately, I did not get to see a whole lot of last night's convention. All I saw was Palin's speech, along with Giuliani's introduction. Palin was well-spoken, but I have come to the conclusion that VPs get a bum rap when it comes to the convention speech.

    The thing that stood out to me both this week with Palin and last week with Biden is that the VP speeches are less polished than the others. The reason for this is obvious - since the VPs don't know they are going to be the VP until days before the convention starts, they have less than a week to prepare the speech. They do have speech writers to help of course, but the fact remains it's not a heck of a lot of time to put together the speech. Most of the other major speakers started preparing their speeches weeks in advance. In the case of Biden, he knew he was going to the DNC and was working on a speech, but he obviously had to scrap it and start over once he found out he was VP. In the case of Palin, I don't know if she was even planning on coming to the Convention before she was asked to join the ticket with McCain. As she was not a major player in the Republican Party (before now) she certainly wouldn't have been given a primetime speaking slot at the Convention, so I doubt she was working on any speech at all.
     
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