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Should Government be more or less?

Discussion in 'Alley of Lingering Sighs' started by Nakia, Jun 7, 2007.

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  1. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Remove all ads!
    I agree on points one and two. As for UHC my vote is not decided yet. Our Federal government can't even straighten SS or Medicate out. States have implemented various programs to help those who cannot afford health insurance. If we expect perfection from institutions created and run by human beings we are doomed to be disappointed. Let the states decide what is best for them.
     
    Nakia, Jun 13, 2007
    #41

  2. Darkwolf Gems: 18/31
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    Someday when you or someone you love needs bypass surgery ASAP, and there is a good chance that every day they wait they could very well die, and the Dr's tell you that they are really sorry but they legally have to wait in line, and the line is 6 months long, tell me then how much you favor UHC. This happens all the time in Canada. You know what they do? They come south to get their surgery done.

    I wonder if former Presidents will have to wait in the same line? Remember President Clinton's emergency bypass surgery that was done within hours of his diagnosis...bet he would still get it just as fast, while the rest of us waited in line, but then some pigs are more equal than others (no I didn't call Clinton a pig, sorry if you don't get the reference). Maybe we will be able to get our surgery south of the border as well...or probably the trend of offshoring expensive medical procedures will become very lucrative indeed.
     
    Darkwolf, Jun 13, 2007
    #42

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    I'm curious as to why you folks think organized labor is more effective vs. capital than government is.
     
    AMaster, Jun 13, 2007
    #43
  4. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    Yes, and now you need another stay in the hospital for the second heart attack you have once the good doctors hand you the $50,000.00 plus bill for their services.
     
    Chandos the Red, Jun 13, 2007
    #44
  5. Montresor

    Montresor Mostly Harmless Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder

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    In Denmark, too. Last year's scandal, which cost one medical director his job (but apparently not much more), was the disclosure of a number of cases where people had died on waiting lists, while waiting their turn for radiation treatments for cancer! Unfortunately, getting to an American hospital isn't as easy for us as it is for Canadians.

    At least three of my mother's siblings had to go to Norway for heart bypasses. The waiting period in Denmark was too long.

    If you die on the waiting list, you don't have to pay the medical bill. :hahaerr:
     
    Montresor, Jun 13, 2007
    #45

  6. Darkwolf Gems: 18/31
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    Exactly...that is why we need a new solutions. Why are we going to try something that has already failed? Repeating the same action and expecting a different result is a sign of an unsound mind.
     
    Darkwolf, Jun 13, 2007
    #46
  7. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    DW - That, I can agree with! :)

    As fortune would have it, this appeared in the headlines today:

    Yes, a woman died on the floor of a hospital ER as nurses and healhcare workers stood by and watched. That's not the norm, but nevertheless it happens here ...

    [ June 14, 2007, 03:20: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]
     
    Chandos the Red, Jun 13, 2007
    #47
  8. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    We've had a case make the headlines a few days ago when a man who's come to the ER because of severe respiratory problems died in the hall a few minutes later. He was apparently sent to another part of the building for forms that he needed to fill out before any doctor would look at him. Unbelievable carelessness like that happens everywhere from time to time.
     
    Taluntain, Jun 14, 2007
    #48
  9. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    This was in the LA Times last month some time; it took place at King-Harbor hospital that has been extremely troubled for a long while and has somehow avoided having the plug pulled and federal funding cut off for numerous repeat code violations and failures to improve.

    Not that it's any excuse, but just as an explanation of how something like that could happen in a hospital setting: Apparently the woman was somewhat belligerent, had been to the ER three times in the previous three days, had been given pain medication and a doctor's appointment, and had just been released from the ER again hours before. So, I guess the staff just thought she was a nuisance and wasn't in as much pain as claimed.

    Again, I'm in no way trying to excuse what happened, especially given how poor King-Harbor has been operating. I just can't understand why it's still allowed to remain open.
     
    Blackthorne TA, Jun 14, 2007
    #49

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    As far as UHC, this seems relevant.

    The biting bit: ""With universal [health care], you’d get the same kind of mediocre ****tiness that you’d get in all other kinds of standardized approaches. But for millions of people, that would be a big upgrade."
     
    AMaster, Jun 15, 2007
    #50
  11. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    As Darkwolf points out, the current system is breaking down. But that does not mean that UHC is THE solution - it may be an option, given the way things are declining, but there may be other solutions that would be more agreeable. There needs to be a debate about other options.

    As for the old saw about the "Fouding Fathers" wanting this or that - they did not want a standing, professional army maintained by the federal government either. Do we have one anyway?
     
    Chandos the Red, Jun 15, 2007
    #51
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