1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

Spies and Espionage

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Abomination, Oct 6, 2004.

  1. Abomination Gems: 26/31
    Latest gem: Diamond


    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2003
    Messages:
    2,375
    Likes Received:
    0
    [​IMG] Since my fellow countryman(boy), Harbourboy, brought up Israel's cloak and dagger operations against our small yet noble country I decided to make a thread about it.

    New Zealand. Most people have heard of us. Not many can find us on a map. Most think we’re part of Australia. Some think we’re close to England. There are only 4 million of us but we’re still allied to big-boy America and a proud member of the United Nations. However that doesn’t mean much. Compared to the world our military is nothing. We could invade America and they probably wouldn’t even notice.

    Yet, Israel, in all their wisdom (or lack thereof) sought fit to spend resources infiltrating our borders with false passports and seeking to procure information from our government. Heck - they just had to ASK and we probably would have given them a free meal and accommodations too.

    Now that their fiendish plot has been exposed, we have presented Israel with a serious ultimatum. Failure to deliver will result in severe punishment!

    We demand an… APOLOGY! And if we do not receive this we shall be forced to… ASK AGAIN!

    We gather that their lack of a response is due to a paralysing fear imposed by our most beautiful and awe inspiring Prime-Minister Helen (Slaughter-your-armies) Clark. And rightly so!

    Obviously Israel is stalling, deciding that they are not capable of fighting a war on two fronts. Our direct access to their shores via the Pacific Ocean -> Indian Ocean -> South Atlantic Ocean -> North Atlantic Ocean -> Mediterranean Sea route can place our vast Royal Armada of 3 frigates in sight of their coast within 3 months!

    Let all the world know of New Zealand’s displeasure towards Israel! We shall not cease till our demands are met! Spread the word, the day of reckoning is at hand!

    …please.
     
  2. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    Messages:
    13,346
    Likes Received:
    97
    I heard they hadn't apologised yet because there was some sort of Jewish festival on this week. Their diplomats will be back on board next week. As well as an apology, Helen Clark has also asked for a promise that they won't try and undermine the intergrity of our passport system ever again.
     
  3. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,407
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    My take on spies and espionage: If you can infiltrate a foreign country and make off with the goods, then good on ya! Shame on the counter-intelligence folks for letting you get away with it.

    What I despise is the giving of information to foreign governments by citizens.
     
  4. Abomination Gems: 26/31
    Latest gem: Diamond


    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2003
    Messages:
    2,375
    Likes Received:
    0
    I apologise for reavealing our military secrets in reguard to the size of our navy. :rolleyes:
     
  5. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    Messages:
    13,346
    Likes Received:
    97
    We have a navy?! :whoa:
     
  6. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,407
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    Tehehe.

    Oh, I forgot about getting caught.

    I think an apology is mandatory if foreign infliltrators get caught redhanded (of course that can be the least of the problem).

    For a citizen getting caught providing secrets to foreign governments, death would not be too harsh a punishment IMO, but I'd be satisfied with prison time.
     
  7. notforyou Gems: 5/31
    Latest gem: Andar


    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2003
    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    0
    Abomination - Your mighty frigates can make a shortcut - just turn right at the Indian Ocean, go northward in the Arab Sea and continue via the Red Sea. We'll be ready! Just hope the uber-friendly countries along the way will let you through. On sceond thought, who would even try to stop the New-Zealand Navy ;)

    Hey, my apology in the other thread isn't enough? I'll talk to Sharon first thing in the morning.

    EDIT - BTA, spare my life!
     
  8. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    Messages:
    13,346
    Likes Received:
    97
    We won't send our *cough* "frigates". We can send a far deadlier weapon of mass destruction. We'll send Israel Ben Lummis - the winner of NZ Pop Idol to sing outside the gates of Tel Aviv. Ha! You'll think twice before meddling with New Zealand.

    notforyou - it's too late to apologise, I've already forgiven you (I've looking for the right context to say that).
     
  9. notforyou Gems: 5/31
    Latest gem: Andar


    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2003
    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    0
    You're sending Ben Lummis! Arghhhh! Apology taken back. AND expect Svika Pick to knock on your door any day now. Fight fire with fire.
     
  10. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2001
    Messages:
    8,731
    Media:
    88
    Likes Received:
    379
    Gender:
    Male
    Abomination - Invade us, please! I want to be on the first launch to declare your beaches American territory. It sure as heck beats what I'm doing right now.

    Plus, if you all act up too much, whoever you are, we'll send you Paris Hilton and the Richie kid (for real, not just on TV). That'll learn ya, but quick. And then we'll add Sprite's Canadian Moose in his natty mountie uniform just to show who's boss.

    Where's New Zealand again . . . ? Go south to Australia and make a hard right?
     
  11. Yirimyah Gems: 11/31
    Latest gem: Bloodstone


    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2004
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    0
    Look for the sheep and the chanting rugby players.

    Also, although noone has heard about it due to the US election, in our soon-to-be-held election (australia) there is a candidateless party called Enslavenz who's objective is to enslave the entire population of New Zealand. Look out Abomnination!
     
  12. Carcaroth

    Carcaroth I call on the priests, saints and dancin' girls ★ SPS Account Holder

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,655
    Likes Received:
    5
    I was unaware that NZ counted as being allied to the US. I was under the impression that the US had imposed sanctions on NZ after their refusal to let the US put up nuclear bases.
     
  13. Morgoroth

    Morgoroth Just because I happen to have tentacles, it doesn'

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,392
    Likes Received:
    45
    Well in Finland we take espionage quite seriously since DDR and Soviet Union had a nasty habit of spying on about everything we had during the cold war. Espionage against the state will normally end in life in prison if the spy is a foreigner(of course our life is prison is just about 20 years in prison) and the same goes for Finnish citizen caught spying for some other state.

    My personal view is that spying another western world state is extremely paranoid. I doubt we have anything that big to hide from the other. I do however understand if Israel would be spying upon their neighbours (which I'm sure they are) or if the USA would be spying on China (which they definently are). It would really nice to hear why the Israeli government sent spies to New Zealand since I can't come up with one single good reason.
     
  14. Carcaroth

    Carcaroth I call on the priests, saints and dancin' girls ★ SPS Account Holder

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,655
    Likes Received:
    5
    Maybe they were trying to steal a Silmaril?
     
  15. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2003
    Messages:
    6,815
    Media:
    6
    Likes Received:
    336
    Don't forget about our fearsome submarine forces. :rolleyes:
     
  16. Tiberius Gems: 6/31
    Latest gem: Jasper


    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2004
    Messages:
    150
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have an idea, since Israel has not apologized for it's espionage in New Zealand. Let us get together the best rugby player in New Zealand and put them against a team of spies from Israel. ha ha.

    I have met a couple of Kiwi's who played rugby here with some friends and they were great guys. Would NOT want to piss them off though.
     
  17. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,407
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    OK people, remember which forum this is. Try to keep the discussion more serious.
     
  18. Bion Gems: 21/31
    Latest gem: Pearl


    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,356
    Likes Received:
    2
    Israel? I thought the NZ navy had it's hands busy with France!

    @Splunge: And why was the Canadian submarine lurking around Ireland in the first place? Were they illegally smuggling Canadian pop stars into the UK? Were they planning to make off with the Lucky Charms? Or, given the number of Canadians of English or Scottish decent, was this some kind of Orangist plot?
     
  19. Sprite Gems: 15/31
    Latest gem: Waterstar


    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2001
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    0
    BTA,

    Do you feel that way about all forms of spying? What about corporate espionage, spyware, police searching your home without your knowledge, reading your mate's email, freelance peeping Toms? Or is it that you think are government employees entitled to do things that in private life would be considered morally wrong?

    In my opinion, spying is just wrong. And it doesn't matter whether you do it for national interest or any other reason. It may not be deceitful to snoop on a country who is the stated enemy of yours - I'm still thinking the morality of that one through - but to do it to your allies is a totally unjustifiable breach of trust.

    DMC, the problem with your threat is that Canada and New Zealand are both commonwealth countries. So the U.S. cannot have our moose to sort them out down under. No, it will be the moose against Nicole Ritchie and Paris Hilton. No holds barred, steel cage match! (I hope I can get away with one last off-topic blurt since the rest of my post was on topic. Please don't ban me, BTA).
     
  20. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,407
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    Hmmm. Good points. I guess I see foreign espionage as something that is inevitable, and all governments are aware of it and have safeguards in place. The spy is not doing harm to his own country (unless he gets caught :) ), and is most likely providing a great benefit, and as far as I know there's no law that the foreigner is bound by not to spy (maybe there's an international law?).

    Corporate espionage is kinda similar IMO, but there are laws against it, and you're still harming your fellow countrymen. As for the rest, there are laws against them (well, maybe not spyware?) so people don't expect this to go on, and so don't typically make plans to thwart it.

    Eh, maybe I'm just an immoral bastard :)
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.