Why do you dislike the US?

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@ Ragusa

FAZ ?

 

The newspaper you mean? Not, not at all - that's all my effort

 

oh

 

The thing that really nerves me about USA is the arrogance and the we know the "we know what's best for you" atitude the US goverment has toward the rest of the world. Also i really dislike the really big show off about the values of the american way of life (democracy etc) when they don't really enjoy these values in their lives. Anyway i don't have any problem with the people except when they fall in the above mistakes. But even then i am discussing my point of view. And some US citizen i've met were ok not cool (it was the different way they were brought up it's very different than mine) but we had some quality time talking and laughing etc.

 

It's not so much "We know what's good for you" but "You DO know what's good for you?!!!!" sometimes ...

 

I'm sorry, but I have to jump in here. Knock Americans all you want, but at least be fair and have valid arguements.

@Baelzebub

Asking a few random people on the street for a TV show is a "proven fact/poll?" Please. You refer to the stereotype that all Americans seem to think you Aussies are all 'Crocodile Dundee,' railing us for putting you into an unfair grouping because of our portrayal of your country in our TV and movies. Yet at the same time, you give so much credibility to a lame TV street survey only because it validates YOUR stereotype that every single American is an arrogant aloof moron.

Jay Leno, a popular American late-night talk show host, has been doing a segment on his show for years called 'Jaywalking.' Exactly like the segment you described, he goes out on the street with a microphone and camera and asks everyday citizens simple historical/social trivia such as "When was the war of 1812 faught?" Of course, nobody gets the right answer and says something stupid on the show. What you don't realize is how long it takes to get enough people to say the wrong thing to fit into a 5-minute segment. A friend of mine used to be an assistant on that show and told me it sometimes takes several days to get one segment together, because they can only show the people who give stupid answers. Because Americans who aren't stupid aren't interesting, even to American audiences. Point being: you see what the producers of that show want you to see to get their point across. In both cases, it's that Americans are "d***heads." In my example it's meant more for humor. In your case, it's meant to perpetuate exactly the type of unfair stereotype you claim to detest.

@Ragusa:

Ragusa, I usually have great respect for what you have to say, but I think you're way off the mark here. Yes, American culture is everywhere - but that's because there's a demand for it. I detest those companies as much as the next guy (I used to work for Starbucks...trust me, I know their evil). But you make it sound as if we force it on these people. They make the choice to walk into a McDonalds or Starbucks and buy a friggin' Big Mac. Don't give me that crap about Americans forcing our culture down everyone's throat because:

A) If there were any other country who had a franchise as popular worldwide as McDonalds or Starbucks, don't think they would hesitate for a minute to set up shop on every streetcorner in America if they thought it would make a ton of money.

B) These franchises wouldn't exist in these places if there weren't people buying what they sell. Until the day I see the manager of a McDonalds pointing a gun at someone's head while they shove down a sausage McMuffin, don't even go there.

My point is, if you have some personal experience with Americans that left a bad taste in your mouth, that's fine. Hell, there are plenty of Americans I'd just as soon shoot as look at, and I AM one. But taking extreme points of view based solely by what you hear in the media makes you just as much of an idiot as we "d***heads," asterisks intended.

I find this thread so interesting because it gives me the opportunity to learn a different point of view. But please, take a minute to smell the crap before you shovel it. I could make plenty of assumptions about the Germans, too. Not just by public opinion lately, but history and my own personal experiences - but I don't. Why? I refuse to make judgements on a people based only on blanket stereotypes, government policies I disagree with and bad experiences with a small few of the dozen or so Germans I've known in my life so far.

My take home message is this: we are not George Bush. We are not Pepsi. We are not John Wayne or Jerry Springer or Bill Gates. Most of us are people just like all of you, trying to get through the day. We're still human beings, and many of us are a lot more scared and concerned than you give us credit for.

 

It's not about the evil of Starbucks* or McDonalds. You clearly miss my point there: Of course, no one forces the arabs to eat hamburgers and drink starbucks coffee. What I aimed on was beyond that: I used these names as metaphors for western influence, and open western influence there mostly is from the US.
You can't have missed that I stressed the influence of the leaders and the differences between their views and the views of their people.

My core message was that the US very much like to stress the importance of worldwide democracy, also, recently for iraq, in the arab countries. At the same time they suggest the local gvt's to suppress the opposition because it is islamic and could be elected in the next elections. That is really ironic.
And the US wonder that arabs dislike them, even consider them hypochrits? A look at the US way to deal with israel compared with iraq should work to convince the last arab on that point. That statement, of course, is on foreign policy.

While supporting the pro-arab countries in the joint war on terror ... err ... islamism ... the US also trade. The people who know and see that the americans help their gvt's to opress them, see the indicators of american influence. Like Starbucks, McDonalds and the like. They feel that they loose control and sovereignty on their soil.

*I chose that example mainly because there is indeed some irony in Starbucks bringing coffee back to the arabs ...

 

Okay Ragusa, I get you now.

But still, I see the influence over their elections as less about keeping "islam" down, but rather keeping "fanatical islam" down. Our public sees fanatical, extreme governments and ideologies as a major threat to us. The average American could care less about "Islam," unless people are killing or dying "for the glory of Allah." Not to say we see Islam as insignificant, just nothing to worry about.

I can understand and appreciate those in the region for feeling the way they do. But I think our intentions there are a lot simpler than they seem. More about (at least percieved) security than economics (though economics is still a big part - an entire nation boycotting all things American is not good for profits, obviously). Our biggest mistake here (if our intentions are true) is not caring to explain ourselves properly. Our government doesn't care to explain itself to it's own citizens all that often - especially regarding foreign policy, which is why so many of us are confused about it - much less the common people of a far-away country. These people are then left to draw their own conclusions about why we're doing what we're doing, influenced by what they think our presence represents. I honestly don't blame them.

I see it like this - IMO - If you believe someone is wrong and accuse them of it, and they don't seem to care why you think that way or make any attempt to clear their name, it is natural to assume that your theory is correct based on your unchallenged view.

 

The arabs who want a more islamic country to live in, rebelling against the opressive gvt's have a problem and a solution. Politically they have no influence, the elections are bad jokes. Demonstrating against the gvt only gets them beaten up and put in jail to be forgotten or further maltreated. What's their choice? A number of people in the arab countries choose violence.

Islam promotes the unity of government or rule and religion. In the concept of islam there is no need for democracy as the leader (ideally) is wise and just - he has to when he follows the path of islam.
Faced with injust, corrupt regimes a lot of people find trust in god. So do the arabs. They do so when peaceful or in war. The fight for islam is a freedom fight - freedom from the opressive gvt to an islamic, just regime. In the arab eyes the way to islam often is seen as a political solution in response to opressive governments.

Even if that's a cirlce and can be instrumentalised by powerhungry politicians that's still a good and just cause.

Only to fight against evil "fanatic islam" as the US demonstrate atm is shortsighted. Look at Saudi-Arabia which is dominated by wahhabi islam. Compared to a more liberal, sufi islam the wahhabis are fanatics. Gives that a reason to kill them out - or to dominate them? Because they endanger what ... because Bin Laden is wahhabi? and Al-Quaida? because of US interests? Trade relations? World peace? Order?

In the middle east the US face a problem that cannot be solved by bombs. More, when they keep on ignoring the principles of democracy their allies violate they will only breed more radicals and pave the way for more war.

Maybe it's good and healthy for the arabs to decide for a path of their own - doing what is totally normal - self-determination. Isn't that one of the US constitution's ideals? Even when that would mean that another islamic government would pop up: How bad would that be?

 

I totally agree - if it were to become clear that were that to happen progress in the region would come from it, I would support it wholly. Honestly, I think the best thing to happen would be for Bush and Blair to do exactly what they today said they intend: Give the government back to the Iraqis. What they are trying to prevent by their post-war involvement is another Saddam-like power rising up and taking it's place. If the tribes in the region can just work together for once and make it work, then we'll leave and never bother with it again. Otherwise, someone will come into power by capitalizing on the squabbling of the local tribes and dominate as brutally and selfishly as he sees fit...another Saddam all over again.

 

I think Bush and Blair will keep their word. We talked today in my staff room about the fact that after the US defeated Japan, Macarthur(sic) took over for a while, but eventually there was a constitution established and a democratic government created. Now Japan is prosperous and powerful. The same thing can happen in Iraq (I have no crystal ball, so I'm not going to say it will happen) but the possibility exists. It's easy to hate someone when you get only one side of a story (and that also applies to Saddam, yes I know) but when the Iraqis are exposed to other media sources besides the ones sanctioned by the present regime, they will likely change their tune.

 

I have to wonder that if the U.S. were a small, tucked-up country in Eastern Europe, still maintaining its supposed ignorance, stupidity, and excess, people would still be kicking it.

 

C'Jacob, you have the right of it. For a long time, the British Empire was the whipping boy of intellectuals and literati. Now that England doesn't take such a forceful role in world affairs, the criticism levelled against it has dropped off a great deal. It's always easy to criticize a success -- it makes people feel better about the fact that they don't have some of the things we have (I'm referring not only to the US, but to the West in general)

 

True. But a new Japanese constitution was made with the approval of the US of course. One was that Japan cannot go to war only create a self defence force (SDF). Whether that was wrong or right, it shows that the "gift" of democracy is not without a price. Will the U.S. allow the Iraqi people to create a new system without any "suggestions?"

Also, the enemy Japan was given an enormous amount of aid to rebuild after WWII while the ally, the Philippines, was immediately given independence (how benevolent!) and left to fend for itself.

 

In a number of ways, I think this sums up the 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' perception of a lot of Americans. Just a little thinking and you see what I mean.

 

Charlie, of course there will be conditions -- it would be naive to think there wouldn't be. But the fact remains that now Japan is a powerhouse in Asia. Iraq could be a real powerhouse in the Middle East if they acted smart and got a decent government -- one that allows for some opposition, maybe! I mean, anyone in the States can go out and say "Bush is a(n) <expletive>". Try being an Iraqi and saying something similar about Saddam. We all know they, and their family, would be tortured or shot. Don't tell me that's what Middle Eastern people want. And unless someone helps them, they will never be able to change that -- the days of peasants being able to storm the Bastille are over with the advent of high tech weapons.

 

Depaara,

I agree. I just want to make sure that no one is naive to think otherwise. Also, see my point below.

Laches,

I'm not saying, "Damned if you do, damned if you don't." I just didn't like your example. Filipino soldiers died side by side the American troops. MacArthur was very honorable in fulfilling his promise of liberating the Philippines. But I can't say the same for the U.S. government. I'm not saying that the U.S. should not have helped Japan, even if its the very same country that bombed Pearl Harbor. But the U.S. could have treated the Philippines better. How can you treat your enemy better than your friend?

BTW, Manila was the second most devastated city after Warsaw. (Chevalier, I'd love to get some info on the damage.)

 

A lot of Anti-American/Anti-US feelings in here.

America is my home, I was born here, and with luck, I will die here too.

All you people who say President Bush is an idiot, who mock his cabinet members, etc . . . I guess there is no easy way to say it. You piss me off. President Bush and his allies have the balls to at least stand up and say, we will not live in fear. Kudos to Prime Minister Tony Blair and the British people, and to the Govt of Australia and its people for taking a stand and doing what is right.

Oh, one more thing, tomorrow, I leave for Luke AFB, to do my part in defending this great nation. *Waves Bye*

 

Charlie,

You do understand everything that went into the rebuilding of Japan? For example, you realize that US military personnel were in the classrooms of Japan for a long time making sure that the children were being taught the approved course? That the military maintained control over Japan for quite some time?

If that happens today in Iraq, the outcry from around the world will be deafening. Already France, Russia, and Germany are meeting to demand that the US not have a strong role in Iraq post-war.

Indeed, the common cry seems to be for the US to turn over control to Iraqis ASAP. The demands sound a lot like people asking the US to treat Iraq like they did the Phillipines. Which you are criticizing the US for. And if the US treats Iraq like they did Japan they'll be criticized heavily for it. And if they don't they'll be criticized by you and others who believe like you. And if they don't.....

To see evidence of this, look at other threads on this very board. Look at some of the things being stated by Yago for example , or Shoshino, or...

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

I would submit to you that most of the complaints I see here are not American promblems but human nature.

For instance several of you have claimed Americans are arrogant or just plain stupid,or we feel superior to other countries.By saying these things doesnt that mean you think you are better or smarter than Americans.Being guilty of exactly what you accuse of us of being.

As for the politicions attitudes,isnt that the case in every country.After all it takes a huge ego to stand up and say I can lead these people,I know what is good for this country.

All countries try to do what they think is their own best interest.No country will just do what others say.They all beleive they know what is best for their people and place in the world.This applies to every nation in the world not just th US.

I am quite sure no other country except the US has arrogant or ignorant or just plain stupid citizens.MY point is a cross section of any country anywhere in the world will dig up all kinds of people.The US is just like everywhere else as far its populace is concerned.Most of the US is full of just regular people trying to get buy.

I gues this the price of living in one of the worlds most powerful nations.Everyone wants to kick you around.