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Sorcerer spell grades in normal mode (all)

Discussion in 'Icewind Dale 2' started by JT, Jan 24, 2007.

  1. JT Gems: 12/31
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    I've graded the sorcerer spells according to my opinion of their utility in
    normal mode. These grades take into account the quality of other spells of the
    same level, similar spells of different levels, cleric spells, and the
    always-present option of not casting anything. Many of these spells will become
    better, or worse, in HoF mode, but these ratings ignore that. If you're
    planning to continue into HoF, there is a spell grades thread for it:
    http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/14/2481.html#000000

    Because wizards have the same spell list as sorcerers, these grades are useful
    to them also. However, wizards don't have a limit on how many spells they can
    learn. So these grades should help them decide which spells to *prepare*.

    Bards can learn *some* of the same spells as sorcerers, though sometimes at
    different levels, but can also learn some cleric spells. Therefore these grades
    are only a rough guideline for them. Perhaps a separate bard guide is needed...

    These grades assume a generic party:
    - At least one sorcerer (more is better!)
    - At least one cleric
    - At least one melee "tank" who benefits from AC and damage boosts
    - Some archers (the sorcerer, at least...)
    - (optional) A rogue for the trap disarming, lock opening, sneak attack, etc.
    - No muling, squatting, or other extreme level boosting "techniques"
    - At least a little consideration paid to the globe clock. For example, no
    cast-ID-and-rest every time a magic item is found.
    - Latest patch, no mods.

    Key:
    A: Powerful, highly useful, and/or game-changing.
    B: Effective and useful.
    C: Somewhat effective, often situational.
    D: Marginally effective. Do not learn.
    F: Worthless. Do not learn.

    A question mark (?) indicates uncertainty about the grade because I have little
    experience with that spell. Comments on it are especially welcome.

    An asterisk (*) before the letter means the spell is also available to clerics.
    Often (but not always!) it is most effective to have a cleric prepare these
    spells, freeing up the more valuable sorcerer slots. My letter grades take
    this into consideration.

    A plus sign (+) after the letter indicates that in parties with multiple
    sorcerers, it is useful for all of them to learn it. This may be because the
    spell is caster-only (Mirror Image), emergency (Dispel Magic), or very
    heavily used (Stoneskin).

    A minus sign (-) after the letter means that it is nearly pointless to learn
    that spell with more than one sorcerer. These are typically long-lasting
    buff spells like Cat's Grace and Emotion: Hope, or highly situational.


    Abbreviations:
    AC - Armor Class
    AOE - Area Of Effect
    CL - Caster Level
    DC - Difficulty Class = 10 + [spell level] + [caster stat bonus] + [any misc. bonuses]
    DOT - Damage Over Time. Generally inferior to normal direct damage spells.
    XL - Experience Level, Caster Level

    As always, I appreciate your comments and criticism.

    Code:
    ---Level One Spells---
    
    Grade   Spell                   Comments
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      C     Burning Hands           
      A+    Charm Person            Will save-or-die against humanoids
      F     Chill Touch             
      A+    Chromatic Orb           Reflex save-or-die (CL 7+)
     ?D     Color Spray             AOE Will save or one round of stun. I dunno...
     ?D     Grease                  The AOE is so tiny
      D     Ice Dagger              Compare to magic missile
      C-    Identify                Saves some gold on those hard-to-ID items
      F     Larloch's Minor Drain  
      B-    Mage Armor              AC bonus is only +4, but great duration
      C     Magic Missile           Best damage at this level, but that isn't much. 
      D     Minor Mirror Image      At least it casts quickly.
     *B-    Protection From Evil    +2 deflection bonus to AC, saves
      F-    Protection from Petri    
      F     Ray of Enfeeblement     Anything you want to cast this on will have a
                                    good Fort save.  Use Orb instead.
      C+    Shield                  Caster only.  An "A" for tanks.
      F     Shocking Grasp          Compare to magic missile
      F     Sleep
     *D-    Summon Monster I        Speedbumps versus the Guardian?
    
    
    ---Level Two Spells---
    
    Grade   Spell                   Comments
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      D     Aganazzar's Scorcher     
     *F     Blindness
      D+    Blur                    I don't think this "stacks" well with Mirror
                                    Image.  Could be used before very tough battles
     *C-    Bull's Strength         Have the cleric prepare it.
      A-    Cat's Grace             Not many dex boosters in this game.
      F     Deafness                
      F     Death Armor             Caster only, must be hit, pitiful damage.
      F     Decastave               Compare to ordinary magic weapons
      A-    Eagle's Splendor        DC booster, mandatory
      D     Gedlee's Electric Lo    Yet another crappy damage spell
      F     Ghoul Touch             Compare to Charm/Orb
      D     Horror                  
      A     Invisibility            Many good uses.
      C-    Knock                   Value changes depending on the party
     ?B     Luck                    Duration is too short, may be a "C".
     ?D     Melf's Acid Arrow       One target, DOT
     *D-    Minor Elemental Barr    Simply doesn't do much.
      A+    Mirror Image            Insanely good.
      D     Power Word: Sleep       Compare to Charm/Orb
      B-    Protection from Arro    Stacks with Stoneskin, nice duration.
      F-    See Invisibility        I've never met any invisible creatures
      C     Snilloc's Snowball S    Best of the level two damage spells
     *F     Summon Monster II       Obselete too fast
      F     Vocalize                
     ?B     Web                     Comments?
    
    
    ---Level Three Spells---
    
    Grade   Spell                   Comments
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      F     Blink                   20% spell fail rate. "A" if your tank can cast it.
      D     Dire Charm              Use level one slots on Charm Person instead 
     *B+    Dispel Magic            
      A     Fireball                Weakens a little in the last two chapters.
      D     Flame Arrow             Lightning Bolt that only hits one target.
      A     Ghost Armor             +5 *deflection* (not armor) bonus to AC.
      B     Haste                   Don't wait till XL 11 for Mass Haste.
    *?D     Hold Person             I've never had sucess with this.
      D     Icelance                
      B     Invisibility Sphere     For emergencies.
      C     Lance of Disruption     Very similar to Lightning Bolt
      C     Lightning Bolt          Bad AOE
     *C-    Magic Circle Against    Cheaper to stick with the level one version
     ?C     Melf's Minute Meteor    Anyone tried this?
      F-    Nondetection            
      D     Protection from Fire
      A     Skull Trap              Smaller AOE than Fireball, but no damage cap
     ?B     Slow
     ?C     Stinking Cloud          Some people like this, dunno why.
     *F     Summon Monster III
      F     Vampiric Touch
    
    
    ---Level Four Spells---
    
    Grade   Spell                   Comments
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     ?F     Beltyn's Burning Blo    
     ?D     Blood Rage              Cast on a summon?
      A     Confusion               Even better AOE than Chaos, but easier save
     *F     Contagion
      C-    Emotion: Despair        Bad compared to Malison, but stacks with it.
      F     Emotion: Fear           Compare to Confusion
      A-    Emotion: Hope
      F     Emotion: Rage           Does very little. Only lasts 5 rounds.
      D     Fire Shield (Blue)      Poor way of dealing damage
      D     Fire Shield (Red)       This one slightly better, for the 50% cold res
      D     Ice Storm               Almost an "F", but at least doesn't allow a save
      ?     Improved Invisibilit    Not sure if it has the 50% miss chance it should
      B+    Malison
      D     Minor Globe of Invul    Blocks friendly spells too.
      C     Mordenkainen's Force    No good till XL 13. Reflex save mostly negates.
      X     Otiluke's Resilient     Would be a "B" or "C" if it didn't break the AI.
     *F     Protection from Ligh
     *F     Remove Curse            Curses are rare; let the cleric deal with them.
      D     Shadow Conjuration      20% HP cripples this.
      F     Shout                   
      C     Spider Spawn            Most normal mode summons are mediocre at best.
      A-    Spirit Armor            
      A+    Stoneskin               Great duration; keep this active on the whole party.
     *D     Summon Monster IV       Compare to Spider Spawn
     ?C     Vitriolic Sphere
     ?F     Wall of Fire            Duration and damage both terrible.
    
    
    
    ---Level Five Spells---
    
    Grade   Spell                   Comments
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     *B     Animate Dead            Get it from cleric instead.  Capped at XL 9
     ?F     Ball Lightning          Seems terrible compared to Melf's M. M.
      A     Chaos                   
     ?D     Cloudkill               1d10 damage/round, no save.
      A+    Cone of Cold            15d6 cap doesn't matter in normal
      D-    Dismissal               Very situational save-or-die
      B     Dominate Person         Single target Will save-or-die
      F     Feeblemind              Compare to Dominate Person
      D     Greater Shadow Conju    Same monsters as Shadow Conjuration, 40% HP
      D     Hold Monster            Compare to Dominate Person
      D     Lesser Planar Bindin    Decent, but compare to Animate Dead
      C-    Lower Resistance        Very situational
      F     Phantom Blade           Get a real weapon, hopefully ranged
      D-    Protection from Acid    Use vs the guardian?
     ?F-    Protection from Elec    Not aware of any serious electrical attacks.
     ?F     Shroud of Flame
     *F     Summon Monster V        Compare to other level five summons.
     ?F     Summon Shadow           I seem to recall these guys being terrible
      B     Sunfire                 Same damage as Cone of Cold, but AOE is tricky.
    
    
    ---Level Six Spells---
    
    Grade   Spell                   Comments
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      B     Acid Fog                DOT, but no save and also slows. 
      B     Acid Storm              Similar to Cone, better AOE and damage type,
                                    but 6th level slots are much nicer than 5th. 
      F     Antimagic Field
      F     Carrion Summons         
     ?D     Chain Lightning         I heard it is bugged.  Compare to Acid Storm.
      ?     Circle of Death.        Never tried it, to be honest.
     ?F     Darts of Bone           
      C     Disintegrate            Single-target Fort save-or-die
      F     Flesh to Stone          Compare to Disintegrate
     ?D+    Globe of Invulnerabi    
      F     Lich Touch
      A     Mass Haste              Mandatory.  Summons benefit too.
      F     Otiluke's Freezing S    "Reflex negates", and compare to Flame Arrow
     ?C     Planar Binding:         Not controllable.
      F     Power Word: Silence     "Duration: 2 rounds"
      F     Shades                  Similar monsters to SM7, less HP
      F     Soul Eater
      F-    Stone to Flesh          I've never been petrified.
      F     Summon Invisible Sta 
     *D     Summon Monster VI       The elementals are better.
      ?     Tenser's Transformat   
      F     Trollish Fortitude      100 HP healed slowly.  Compare to Stoneskin and potions.
      F     Wyvern Call             
    
    
    
    ---Level Seven Spells---
    
    Grade   Spell                   Comments
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      F-    Banishment              Not many enemy summons in the game
      C     Cacofiend               Nasty, but not controllable
      F-    Control Undead          Way too situational. Just kill them.
      A+    Delayed Blast Fireba
     *D-    Elemental Barrier       One character, short duration
      C     Finger of Death         Single target Fortitude save-or-die
      D     Malavon's Rage          Compare to DBF
      F     Mass Invisibility       Compare to Invisibility Sphere
      A+    Mordenkainen's Sword    
      C     Power Word: Stun        
     ?D     Prismatic Spray         Compare to DBF
      F     Seven Eyes              
      F     Suffocate               10' AOE, DOT, bad duration
      D     Summon Djinni
      D     Summon Efreeti
     *D     Summon Monster VII
      F     Vipergout
    
    
    ---Level Eight Spells---
    
    Grade   Spell                   Comments
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      C     Fiery Cloud             10' AOE, DOT, but great damage
      F     Flaying
      F     Great Shout
      A     Horrid Wilting          DBF with a Fort save
     ?F     Iron Body               Too bad you can't cast it on the tank
      A-    Mind Blank              Lasts all day, obseletes Will saves
     ?D     Power Word Blind        How good is mass blindness?
      C     Summon Fiend            Pretty much the same as the 7th level version
     *C     Summon Monster VIII
      D     Symbol of Death
      F     Symbol of Fear
     *B     Symbol of Hopelessne    
      F     Symbol of Pain
      D     Symbol of Stunning      Compare to Symbol of Hopelessness
    
    
    ---Level Nine Spells---
    
    Grade   Spell                   Comments
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      F     Aegis                   Not worth a 9th level slot.  Short duration. 
      F     Black Blade of Disas
      C     Executioner's Eyes      Duration too short.
     *A     Gate                    Most powerful summon
      A     Mass Dominate           Mass save-or-die 
      B     Meteor Swarm            About the same damage as DBF
      D     Power Word: Kill        One target, very limited.  No save
     *D     Summon Monster IX       Compare to Gate
      A     Wail of the Banshee     Mass save-or-die
    ---Level One Spells---

    Grade Spell Comments
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    C Burning Hands
    A+ Charm Person Will save-or-die against humanoids
    F Chill Touch
    A+ Chromatic Orb Reflex save-or-die (CL 7+)
    ?D Color Spray AOE Will save or one round of stun. I dunno...
    ?D Grease The AOE is so tiny
    D Ice Dagger Compare to magic missile
    C- Identify Saves some gold on those hard-to-ID items
    F Larloch's Minor Drain
    B- Mage Armor AC bonus is only +4, but great duration
    C Magic Missile Best damage at this level, but that isn't much.
    D Minor Mirror Image At least it casts quickly.
    *B- Protection From Evil +2 deflection bonus to AC, saves
    F- Protection from Petri
    F Ray of Enfeeblement Anything you want to cast this on will have a
    good Fort save. Use Orb instead.
    C+ Shield Caster only. An "A" for tanks.
    F Shocking Grasp Compare to magic missile
    F Sleep
    *D- Summon Monster I Speedbumps versus the Guardian?


    ---Level Two Spells---

    Grade Spell Comments
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    D Aganazzar's Scorcher
    *F Blindness
    D+ Blur I don't think this "stacks" well with Mirror
    Image. Could be used before very tough battles
    *C- Bull's Strength Have the cleric prepare it.
    A- Cat's Grace Not many dex boosters in this game.
    F Deafness
    F Death Armor Caster only, must be hit, pitiful damage.
    F Decastave Compare to ordinary magic weapons
    A- Eagle's Splendor DC booster, mandatory
    D Gedlee's Electric Lo Yet another crappy damage spell
    F Ghoul Touch Compare to Charm/Orb
    D Horror
    A Invisibility Many good uses.
    C- Knock Value changes depending on the party
    ?B Luck Duration is too short, may be a "C".
    ?D Melf's Acid Arrow One target, DOT
    *D- Minor Elemental Barr Simply doesn't do much.
    A+ Mirror Image Insanely good.
    D Power Word: Sleep Compare to Charm/Orb
    B- Protection from Arro Stacks with Stoneskin, nice duration.
    F- See Invisibility I've never met any invisible creatures
    C Snilloc's Snowball S Best of the level two damage spells
    *F Summon Monster II Obselete too fast
    F Vocalize
    ?B Web Comments?


    ---Level Three Spells---

    Grade Spell Comments
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    F Blink 20% spell fail rate. "A" if your tank can cast it.
    D Dire Charm Use level one slots on Charm Person instead
    *B+ Dispel Magic
    A Fireball Weakens a little in the last two chapters.
    D Flame Arrow Lightning Bolt that only hits one target.
    A Ghost Armor +5 *deflection* (not armor) bonus to AC.
    B Haste Don't wait till XL 11 for Mass Haste.
    *?D Hold Person I've never had sucess with this.
    D Icelance
    B Invisibility Sphere For emergencies.
    C Lance of Disruption Very similar to Lightning Bolt
    C Lightning Bolt Bad AOE
    *C- Magic Circle Against Cheaper to stick with the level one version
    ?C Melf's Minute Meteor Anyone tried this?
    F- Nondetection
    D Protection from Fire
    A Skull Trap Smaller AOE than Fireball, but no damage cap
    ?B Slow
    ?C Stinking Cloud Some people like this, dunno why.
    *F Summon Monster III
    F Vampiric Touch


    ---Level Four Spells---

    Grade Spell Comments
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ?F Beltyn's Burning Blo
    ?D Blood Rage Cast on a summon?
    A Confusion Even better AOE than Chaos, but easier save
    *F Contagion
    C- Emotion: Despair Bad compared to Malison, but stacks with it.
    F Emotion: Fear Compare to Confusion
    A- Emotion: Hope
    F Emotion: Rage Does very little. Only lasts 5 rounds.
    D Fire Shield (Blue) Poor way of dealing damage
    D Fire Shield (Red) This one slightly better, for the 50% cold res
    D Ice Storm Almost an "F", but at least doesn't allow a save
    ? Improved Invisibilit Not sure if it has the 50% miss chance it should
    B+ Malison
    D Minor Globe of Invul Blocks friendly spells too.
    C Mordenkainen's Force No good till XL 13. Reflex save mostly negates.
    X Otiluke's Resilient Would be a "B" or "C" if it didn't break the AI.
    *F Protection from Ligh
    *F Remove Curse Curses are rare; let the cleric deal with them.
    D Shadow Conjuration 20% HP cripples this.
    F Shout
    C Spider Spawn Most normal mode summons are mediocre at best.
    A- Spirit Armor
    A+ Stoneskin Great duration; keep this active on the whole party.
    *D Summon Monster IV Compare to Spider Spawn
    ?C Vitriolic Sphere
    ?F Wall of Fire Duration and damage both terrible.


    ---Level Five Spells---

    Grade Spell Comments
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    *B Animate Dead Get it from cleric instead. Capped at XL 9
    ?F Ball Lightning Seems terrible compared to Melf's M. M.
    A Chaos
    ?D Cloudkill 1d10 damage/round, no save.
    A+ Cone of Cold 15d6 cap doesn't matter in normal
    D- Dismissal Very situational save-or-die
    B Dominate Person Single target Will save-or-die
    F Feeblemind Compare to Dominate Person
    D Greater Shadow Conju Same monsters as Shadow Conjuration, 40% HP
    D Hold Monster Compare to Dominate Person
    D Lesser Planar Bindin Decent, but compare to Animate Dead
    C- Lower Resistance Very situational
    F Phantom Blade Get a real weapon, hopefully ranged
    D- Protection from Acid Use vs the guardian?
    ?F- Protection from Elec Not aware of any serious electrical attacks.
    ?F Shroud of Flame
    *F Summon Monster V Compare to other level five summons.
    ?F Summon Shadow I seem to recall these guys being terrible
    B Sunfire Same damage as Cone of Cold, but AOE is tricky.


    ---Level Six Spells---

    Grade Spell Comments
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    B Acid Fog DOT, but no save and also slows.
    B Acid Storm Similar to Cone, better AOE and damage type,
    but 6th level slots are much nicer than 5th.
    F Antimagic Field
    F Carrion Summons
    ?D Chain Lightning I heard it is bugged. Compare to Acid Storm.
    ? Circle of Death. Never tried it, to be honest.
    ?F Darts of Bone
    C Disintegrate Single-target Fort save-or-die
    F Flesh to Stone Compare to Disintegrate
    ?D+ Globe of Invulnerabi
    F Lich Touch
    A Mass Haste Mandatory. Summons benefit too.
    F Otiluke's Freezing S "Reflex negates", and compare to Flame Arrow
    ?C Planar Binding: Not controllable.
    F Power Word: Silence "Duration: 2 rounds"
    F Shades Similar monsters to SM7, less HP
    F Soul Eater
    F- Stone to Flesh I've never been petrified.
    F Summon Invisible Sta
    *D Summon Monster VI The elementals are better.
    ? Tenser's Transformat
    F Trollish Fortitude 100 HP healed slowly. Compare to Stoneskin and potions.
    F Wyvern Call


    ---Level Seven Spells---

    Grade Spell Comments
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    F- Banishment Not many enemy summons in the game
    C Cacofiend Nasty, but not controllable
    F- Control Undead Way too situational. Just kill them.
    A+ Delayed Blast Fireba
    *D- Elemental Barrier One character, short duration
    C Finger of Death Single target Fortitude save-or-die
    D Malavon's Rage Compare to DBF
    F Mass Invisibility Compare to Invisibility Sphere
    A+ Mordenkainen's Sword
    C Power Word: Stun
    ?D Prismatic Spray Compare to DBF
    F Seven Eyes
    F Suffocate 10' AOE, DOT, bad duration
    D Summon Djinni
    D Summon Efreeti
    *D Summon Monster VII
    F Vipergout


    ---Level Eight Spells---

    Grade Spell Comments
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    C Fiery Cloud 10' AOE, DOT, but great damage
    F Flaying
    F Great Shout
    A Horrid Wilting DBF with a Fort save
    ?F Iron Body Too bad you can't cast it on the tank
    A- Mind Blank Lasts all day, obseletes Will saves
    ?D Power Word Blind How good is mass blindness?
    C Summon Fiend Pretty much the same as the 7th level version
    *C Summon Monster VIII
    D Symbol of Death
    F Symbol of Fear
    *B Symbol of Hopelessne
    F Symbol of Pain
    D Symbol of Stunning Compare to Symbol of Hopelessness


    ---Level Nine Spells---

    Grade Spell Comments
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    F Aegis Not worth a 9th level slot. Short duration.
    F Black Blade of Disas
    C Executioner's Eyes Duration too short.
    *A Gate Most powerful summon
    A Mass Dominate Mass save-or-die
    B Meteor Swarm About the same damage as DBF
    D Power Word: Kill One target, very limited. No save
    *D Summon Monster IX Compare to Gate
    A Wail of the Banshee Mass save-or-die

    [ January 27, 2007, 19:26: Message edited by: JT ]
     
  2. TrueBlueAussie Gems: 17/31
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    Adjustments I would make:

    1: Magic missle should be a higher grade as there are multiple missle from level 3 onwards and these serve extremely well against enemy casters as it give more chance to disrupt the spell that the are trying to cast.

    2: Sleep has to be a C grade at least. I found it to be one of the most useful spells during the first chapter. Knock out a bunch of enemies, pick off the few that managed to avoid it then focus on each sleeping monster individually so they do not wake up at the same time.

    3: Slow should be an A as I have found it to be a real lifesavers. Area effect, reduces enemy attack, damage and AC and halves movment rate. Good thing is that if your tank gets a bit roughed up then you can get him to quickly run back to your cleric and heal while the critter that he was fighting is still slowly working his was towards you.

    4: Melf Minute Meteors could probably be a D. They we on of my favourite spells in BG2 but they just dont seem to hit as often in IWD2.

    5: Summon monster I and II are pretty much useless but they do get better from III onwards so I would recommend to bump the last one up to at least a D.
     
  3. crucis

    crucis Fighting the undead in Selune's name Veteran

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    A few comments...

    Level 1:

    Grease should probably be a "B". Yes, in a very open area, the smallish AoE hurts. But in more constricted inside/underground areas, grease's AoE is more than sufficient. Also, Grease work vastly better when combined with another spell like Entangle or Web.

    Magic Missile is an excellent attack spell that only improves with time. Don't leave home without it.

    Protection From Evil, while offering nice protections, is undeserving of anything more than a "C", since it only protects one character at a time. PfE Circle is vastly better and more efficient.


    Level 2:

    Cat's Grace: is it really worth the effort to buff a character's DEX?

    Web is a definite "A" spell. It is THE spell to use if you intend to create a magical kill zone.


    Level 3:

    Flame Arrow should be at least a "B", maybe even an "A". While it's a one-target-only spell, it is effectively a 1d6/level with no max on the number of dice (4d6 per arrow, 1 arrow for every 4 levels). JT, you refer to Lightning Bolt in comparison as being better, but LB requires your spellcaster to not have any of your party between you and your target, if you don't want any friendly fire damage, which is definitely NOT my playing style with mages.

    Skull Trap also has the feature that it's a "trap" spell. That is, it doesn't go off until triggered. So, in certain situations, you can use Skull Traps in some rather nasty ways that wouldn't be possible with a Fireball.

    Stinking Cloud isn't a spell that I'd take all that often with only a single sorceror mage in my party. But with a secondary mage, this can be a rather potent spell for setting up magical kill zones.
     
  4. TrueBlueAussie Gems: 17/31
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    I agree with this as well. Your front line tanks will generally be wearing heavy armour with little or no DEX bonus and you generally dont need it for your backline either as your mages will be casting and if you have an archer, their Dex should already be high enough that Cats Grace will not do much
     
  5. crucis

    crucis Fighting the undead in Selune's name Veteran

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    "Cat's Grace: is it really worth the effort to buff a character's DEX?"

    Bingo!!! I suppose about the only time that a DEX buff might be useful would be for a monk who's already wearing no armor and has nothing to limit the benefits from even more DEX.

    Or maybe a late game or HOF game, a rogue (or any other class, I suppose) who's wearing the Drakkas Chain that has no DEX limit could get some added benefit from Cat's Grace.

    Regardless, I have to wonder if it's really worth having a sorc or wizzy bothering to learn or memorize the spell.
     
  6. Da Rock Gems: 5/31
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    My comments:

    Larloch's Minor Drain = F- (waste of a spell slot!)
    Grease = D (B if used with Web!)
    Sleep = C (see next one)
    Power Word: Sleep = F (Level 1 "Sleep" can affect more enemies at just -1 DC, and lasts longer)
    Cat's Grace = C (F in HoF mode - there are items and spells that end up as/more powerful)
    Death Armor = F (C if used in conjunction with Mirror Image)
    Vampiric Touch = D (up to 60 hit points switched)
    Skull Trap = A+
     
  7. Ulfgar Prigor Gems: 2/31
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    Ray of Enfeeblement is listed in the manual as a 2nd level spell, but in the game itself it is actually a 1st level spell.

    I would grade it higher than an "F." I found it to be quite handy in the first chapter. I used it regularly to disable enemy melee fighters. In fact, my sorceror used it on the Shaengarne Bridge to disable the two ogres who were attempting to destroy the bridge.

    I agree that it has become less useful as the game progressed, but how many first level spells are useful deep into the game, anyway? Certainly fewer than the number (5) the Sorceror is allowed to know at those levels.

    I would also note that the effectiveness of the spell can be enhanced by taking the Necromancy spell focus feats, as well as using Eagle's Splendor to enhance your Sorceror's charisma and thus the DC of his spells.

    Based on the author's key, I would give it a solid C. It is somewhat effective, often situational.
     
  8. Mokona=Modoki Gems: 6/31
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    Comments:

    Level 1
    Burning Hands (transmutation)--B Your best source of damage from sorcerers until you learn fireball, probably around the time you arrive at the Horde Fortress. It remains effective as a troll burning device. Whether you want this for all your sorcerers or just one depends on how much you value prologue and chapter 1 effectiveness (where the game is actually hardest).
    Charm Person (enchantment)--B It's another spell that's very good in early chapter one but loses effectiveness quickly. Worthless by the time you get L5 spells except when you are ambushed while resting with no other spells to cast, in which cast Chromatic Orb is better anyway.
    Protection from Evil (abjuration)--*D- It lasts only 2 rounds/level as opposed to 3 round/lvl (cleric's L1 spell) or 10 rounds/lvl like Magic Circle. You can wait until your cleric hits L5.
    Shield (abjuration)--A+ +7 armor AC with no penalty is great. Being the same level with a bunch of spell that are mostly useless beyond chapter 1 is even better.
    Sleep (enchantment)--C- Actually one of the best L1 spells your sorcerer can learn if you don't have a wizard to cast this.
    Summon Monster I (conjuration)--F Ironically, pretty much anything of the conjuration school that actually summons an ally is an F for sorcerers.

    Level 2
    Eagle's Splendor (transmutation)--B- Same grade, but I must mention that it lasts 1 hr per level, not 10 minutes as the description says.
    Web (conjuration)--A Powerful caster disruption and entrapment spell. Easily as broken as Mirror Image after you learn Freedom of Movement. You don't need more than one person casting it though.

    Level 3
    Dispel Magic (abjuration)--*C Nothing ruins your day more than having all your buffs taken away by a spell that you can neither resist nor save against.
    Magic Circle against Evil (abjuration)--*B Far superior to the L1 Protection against Evil spells, but you need only one or two casts.

    And ratings for spell levels 4-6. Thanks to RBryant from GameFAQs for posting these spells in a convenient format for me to copy.

    Level 4
    Beltyn's Burning Blood (Necromancy)--C- Good way to stop an enemy caster since it uses fortitude save.
    Blood Rage (Transmutation)--? Never used it because it sounded really bad.
    Confusion (Enchantment)--D- Good effect, but having 5 less DC than the L5 version and competing with all the great L4 spells means it's usually not worth taking.
    Contagion (Necromancy)--*F Weak effect except for slow, but you might as well just use Slow for that.
    Emotion: Fear (Enchantment)--F Scattering your enemies usually hurts you, particularly when you have alternatives like Confusion on the same level.
    Emotion: Hope (Enchantment)--B Great buff spell to have pre-battle.
    Emotion: Despair (Enchantment)--A Stacks with Malison and makes enemies very vulnerable to debuff spells. It can backfire though.
    Emotion: Rage (Enchantment)--D- +2 constitution, +1 will save, and -1 AC isn't anything worthwhile. It adds str, but that most likely won't be useful.
    Fire Shield (Blue) (Evocation)--D Ok combo with Mirror Image.
    Fire Shield (Red) (Evocation)--D Ok combo with Mirror Image.
    Ice Storm (Evocation)--F
    Improved Invisibility (Illusion)--? Haven't tried it in 2.01.
    Malison (Enchantment)--A+ One of the most powerful opening debuff spells in the game.
    Minor Globe of Invulnerability (Abjuration)--C+ Can't renew Mirror Image. It's not too bad for an extremely high AC frontliner with no evasion, but I don't recommend it.
    Modenkainen's Force Missiles (Evocation)--F Use Magic Missile instead.
    Otiluke's Resilient Sphere (Evocation)--A Completely broken, but you generally don't need more than one person casting it.
    Protection from Lightning (Abjuration)--D
    Remove Curse (Abjuration)--F
    Shadow Conjuration (Illusion)--F Great series of summon spell for HoF mode, but not when pit against all the useful L4 spells. It's also unlikely that you'll hit a level when you get to summon any useful monsters from this.
    Shout (Evocation)--? Sounds rather pathetic, so I never tried it.
    Spider Spawn (Conjuration)--F
    Spirit Armor (Necromancy)--A- Great buff for the best tanks. The minus sign isn't because it's less powerful than other A ranked spells but because you most likely won't have that many people who need this buff.
    Stoneskin (Abjuration)--A+ This is more or less damage immunity in normal mode.
    Summon Monster IV (Conjuration)--F
    Vitriolic Sphere (Conjuration)--?
    Wall of Fire (Evocation)--F

    Level 5
    Animate dead (Necromancy)--*C- It's a good summon, but you really should use clerics to summon any undead you need.
    Ball Lightning (Evocation)--F
    Chaos (Enchantment)--A+ The best disruption spell until you learn Symbol of Hopelessness.
    Cloudkill (Conjuration)--C- Don't use this. It hurts your own people a lot more than it does your enemies since it doesn't allow a save for damage. Use Sunfire if you want your L5 spells to get some damage.
    Cone of Cold (Evocation)--D- I think I used this for exactly one fight in the entire game: the Efreetis in Dragon's Eye.
    Lesser Planar Binding: Air Elemental (Conjuration)--F
    Lesser Planar Binding: Earth Elemental (Conjuration)--F
    Lesser Planar Binding: Fire Elemental (Conjuration)--F
    Lesser Planar Binding: Water Elemental (Conjuration)--F
    Dismissal (Abjuration)--D- Most summoned stuff are yours, so you don't need this.
    Dominate Person (Enchantment)--B Great DC to gain an ally, but you can't hit him, or he'll turn on you.
    Feeblemind (Enchantment)--B+ It just takes someone out of the fight instead of getting him on your side like Dominate Person. There are a few powerful enemies that are immune to Dominate Person but not Feeblemind though.
    Greater Shadow Conjuration (Illusion)--D Not really worth having at this level.
    Hold Monster (Enchantment)
    Lower Resistance (Transmutation)--A- Game breaking in a number of late game boss fights. Combos perfectly with Skull Trap. This is a spell that you want exactly one person in the party to have, so if you have a wizard who can use this, skip it despite the high rating.
    Phantom Blade (Evocation)--F
    Protection from Acid (Abjuration)--D-
    Protection from Electricity (Abjuration)--C-
    Shroud of Flame (Evocation)--?
    Summon Monster V (Conjuration)--F
    Summon Shadow (Necromancy)--F
    Sunfire (Evocation)--B First upgrade for Fireball (and second upgrade for Burning Hand). Less useful because it's centered on the sorcerer.

    Level 6
    Acid Fog (Conjuration)--B- Good replacement for Grease as the first slowing spell to cast.
    Acid Storm (Evocation)--C The damage is unimpressive. All it offers is a different type of damage.
    Antimagic Field (Abjuration)--F It protects your sorcerer against magic but also takes him out of the fight, essentially. It gets a C+ if this is a strictly melee sorcerer.
    Carrion Summons (Conjuration)--F
    Chain Lightning (Evocation)--F Bugged and does pathetic damage.
    Planar Binding: Air Elemental (Conjuration)--F
    Planar Binding: Fire Elemental (Conjuration)--C- A lot better than the others because it can tank your fireballs.
    Planar Binding: Water Elemental (Conjuration)F
    Darts of Bone (Necromancy)--?
    Disintegrate (Transmutation)--C- Not bad, since it works against undead and constructs, but since sorcerers have better ways to spend their feats than on spell focus: transmutation, its DC is usually not enough.
    Flesh to Stone (Transmutation)--?
    Globe of Invulnerability (Abjuration)--D+ Now you can't even renew Stoneskin.
    Lich Touch (Necromancy)--?
    Mass Haste (Transmutation)--A An top notch buff that you should always keep on everybody in your party. The only sorcerers that do not learn this spell first are pure melee sorcerers who are stopping at L12 for Tenser.
    Otiluke's Freezing Sphere (Evocation)--F
    Power Word: Silence (Conjuration)--F
    Shades (Illusion)--C
    Soul Eater (Necromancy)--D-
    Stone to Flesh (Transmutation)--F There are exactly two things that petrify you in this game, and both of them are one time traps.
    Summon Invisible Stalker (Conjuration)--F
    Summon Monster VI (Conjuration)--F
    Tensor's Transformation (Transmutation)--D+ Not bad a spell to have if your sorcerer spent every spell and the fight still isn't over. It's a must have for melee sorcerers.
    Trollish Fortitude (Necromancy)--B- The regen is actually quite nice for a high AC tank.
    Wyvern Call (Conjuration)--F

    [ January 29, 2007, 19:48: Message edited by: Mokona=Modoki ]
     
  9. Ulfgar Prigor Gems: 2/31
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    My 1st level spell comments:

    Charm Person: I've never found it all that useful. Maybe I should play around with it a bit more. C.

    Identify: A wizard is better suited to handle magic item identification chores. A wizard will typically have more skill points to spend in Knowledge:Arcana, plus Intelligence is the ability modifier for that skill. Only if there is no wizard in the party should this spell be taken. F or B depending on makeup of party.

    Magic Missile: Not so useful for pure damage dealt, but very useful for disrupting enemy spellcasters. Definitely a B.

    Mage Armor: I think this is an essential spell, though I agree that you don't need more than one arcane caster in the party to carry it. A-.

    I agree with the rest of your Lvl 1 grades.

    2nd & 3rd level comments to follow.
     
  10. Mokona=Modoki Gems: 6/31
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    Mage Armor's rating is fine as it is. I'd even consider knocking it down to C-, since it's just insurance against a character other than the sorcerer's AC getting dropped too badly when Spirit Armor runs out once you get Spirit Armor.
     
  11. Mudde Gems: 9/31
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    Spirit armor don't last long. Mage armor lasts until the next time you sleep in later lvls. And it's a wery low lvl spell. That makes it very useful (A-).
    The same goes with cat's grace! For some parties it's not that good, but with monks/thiefs or bow/xbow/throwing weapon users it does good and lasts for a really long time.
    Magic missile is as many others mentioned a good spell to disrupt enemy spellcasters and when you first get it it does ok damage.
    Ray of enfeeblement does have soem uses. My sorc seems to hit with it quite often and the large penalty to strength really makes a difference in normal mode.
    Sleep is very good in the prologue and chapter 1.
    Shield is an A+ in the right build.

    Aganazzar's Scorcher is the most damaging spell when you first get it - should be a C for that reason alone.
    see invisibility (useful 1 or 2 times in the whole game) and vocalise (in the ice temple) are good for wizards in the right areas but not useful enough for sorcerers.

    Don't know why some like flame arrow. damage to several with different AOE from skulltrap and fireball is usually enough to be able to hit whoever you want without hurting your allies.
    MCaE is a must pick if you like gate or other spells like that.
     
  12. kmonster Gems: 24/31
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    Eagle's splendor is A, for sorcerers and bards the spell DC can be increased up to 3, diplomatic skills, shop prices and paladin saving throws also benefit from it for hours.
    Without another arcane caster in the party I'd even prefer it over "mirror image". A sorcerer is hardly ever hit in a normal game.
     
  13. crucis

    crucis Fighting the undead in Selune's name Veteran

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    My comments on Mokona's grades on some of the level 4-6 spells:

    Ice Storm: When you can first get Ice Storm, it's actually a pretty useful spell to have. But given that its damage is fixed, its usefulness begins to degrade almost immediately compared to the enemies you face. Grade: C or D

    Animate Dead: Yes, best summoned by clerics, but there aren't all that many really great level 5 spells, AD isn't a bad choice for any mage to select. Grade: B

    Cloudkill: "Don't use this. It hurts your own people a lot more than it does your enemies since it doesn't allow a save for damage." Huh? It never hurts my characters because I don't have them enter the cloud in the first place. Cloudkill works fine when you use it in combination with spells like Grease, Web, Entangle, etc. Even better when you summon an Animate Dead monster into the middle of that kill zone to act as an enemy magnet. Grade: definite B

    Sunfire: The very fact that this spell centers on the caster is why I give it a grade of "D". In my playing style, I always protect my mages from danger and keep them well protected by the rest of my party. Thus, a damaging spell like Sunfire is a total no-no for my parties.

    Acid Fog: Not a bad spell to use, particularly in HOF, if you want to use it as part of a magical kill zone. Otherwise, it seems like a waste of time. Grade: C

    Planar Binding: Fire Elemental "A lot better than the others because it can tank your fireballs." And it becomes even more useful in HOF as a decoy/enemy magnet in a magical kill zone using fire-based damage spells.
     
  14. Mokona=Modoki Gems: 6/31
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    Spirit Armor is 5 rounds/level. By the time you get it, it already lasts 40 rounds. That's enough to last through a major battle at that point of the game or 2 smaller battles. It's only useful in that it is insurance against -6 Armor AC if Spirit Armor runs out--on another character. You won't need Mage Armor on your sorcerer due to Shield.

    Sunfire: +7 AC from Shield. +5 AC from Ghost Armor. +5 AC from Expertise. +1-3 AC from Cat's Grace. With 10 dex, the sorcerer already has ~30 AC. If you are using a druid, +5 AC from Barksin. The 35 AC, Mirror Image, and Stoneskin is enough to put the sorcerer in the frontlines.

    [ January 25, 2007, 18:20: Message edited by: Mokona=Modoki ]
     
  15. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    Interesting thread. I wouldn't rank Cat's Grace too low since increasing your AC can't be a bad idea (especially if you solo, use ranged weapons or finesse) but it depends a lot on your characters (as it has been pointed out it is useless for tanks in heavy armour).

    For a Sorcerer I wouldn't bother about Mage Armour, Aganazzar's Scorcher or Protection From Evil. Don't forget that you can get items early on that allow you to cast these spells (Rings and the Pipes of the Wheezing Dragon are available in Targos).
     
  16. kmonster Gems: 24/31
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    My comments on Mokona's spell grades:

    "Emotion: Despair" and "Malison" deserve an F, not an A.
    -2 saving throw penalty is just pathetic. Casting the spell you want to prepare your enemies for twice in a row will yield far better chances for success.

    "Protection from lightning" is also F. Little effect, hardly ever useful and can be cast by the cleric.

    In version 2.01 "Improved Invisibility" works as described in the manual and deserves therefore an A.

    The level 6 spell "chain lightning" also worked quite well in my game and deserved an A for dealing out big damage without danger.
     
  17. Mokona=Modoki Gems: 6/31
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    Sorcerers are considered the best bombadiers not because they have some magical property that makes their direct damage spells more powerful but because they have a lot of charges at their disposal. Using Pipes of the Wheezing Dragon to cast Aganazzar's Scorcher is not really a replacement to learning the spell.
     
  18. crucis

    crucis Fighting the undead in Selune's name Veteran

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    Perhaps, but to use Sunfire without risk to your party means that your mage had better be well in FRONT of your "front line". I'm not really sure that I want my mage in that position, merely to cast a Sunfire spell, when there are many other options that don't require him to be so exposed.
     
  19. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    "Using Pipes of the Wheezing Dragon to cast Aganazzar's Scorcher is not really a replacement to learning the spell."

    I see your point. My point is that there is no point learning it since there are many other 2nd level spells that are IMHO much more useful. Aganazzar's Scorcher doesn't get better with higher levels.

    Pipes of the Wheezing Dragon allow you to cast it twice a day, it's not too shabby. I don't recall casting this spell more than twice in a row and I don't believe that anyone would bother casting this spell with a medium or higher level Sorcerer.

    As far as damage is concerned this very spell becomes less and less effective very quickly.
    How many level 2 spells are you going to be able to cast? Snilloc Snowball's Swarm or even Melf's Acid Arrow are better damage dealers in the long run.
     
  20. JT Gems: 12/31
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    Added 4th and 5th level spells to the first post. Also edited second paragraph.

    Let me know if I forgot to mark any cleric-also spells.

    edit: 4th and 5th level spells are now in the first post only

    [ January 26, 2007, 23:12: Message edited by: JT ]
     
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