What are the best one handed backstabbing weapons?

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I'm looking for the best one handed backstabbing weapons at three different points in the game. Please let me know what you think:

1)Before Spellhold.
2)After Spellhold (including Watcher's Keep)
3)Before the final battle in ToB.

 

Before spellhold -> Celestial Fury +3
After spellhold -> Firetooth +3
Before final battle in ToB -> Short Sword of the Mask +5

As you can see...they're all different proficiencies...but since you're a thief, you should be alright for points in all three.

 

Before Spellhold - Celestial Fury
After Spellhold - Dagger of the Star +5 (iirc)
Final ToB battle - Dagger of the Star +5 (upgraded)

I named these two because, well, I couldn't think of anything else offhand. The dagger provides an invisibility bonus with each hit.

 

I find that CF is better for a fighter, than a thief, but thats just my opinion. Short swords and daggers are definately a must!

 

Before spellhold: katana +2 or celestial fury (basically, katanas are the way to go because they have the highest damage potential... although short swords are faster)

After spellhold: firtooth soes good damage and is a ranged option but i would say stick with katanas

ToB: to many to name, get what your most proficient with. Short sword of mask is good. disregarding the requirement of one handed only the Staff of the Ram is the best IMO (the fixed version)

 

1. Celestial Fury
2. Celestial Fury
3. Hindo's Doom +4

5x 1d10 damage from a katana is sth everyone would fear

 

Can you backstab at range with firetooth?

 

No, of course not.

However, I nominated Firetooth as the best after Spellhold as it does 2D4+3+3 fire damage.

That's a maximum of 11 damage from the weapon, whereas Celestial Fury gives you 13 damage from the weapon. Lest you forget, Firetooth is a DAGGER! You get the very sweet weapon speed bonuses which means that you have a lot better chance of getting your backstab off with Firetooth than with a hulkin great sword like Celestial fury!

Also, when used in Ranged mode, it does the exact same damage, but now you get 2 attacks per round instead...with the fire damage on top of that.

It is a seriously cool weapon for a thief to use, especially because he cannot get more than proficiency in any weapon.

 

Does weapon speed matter with a backstab? I mean, it's a free attack, right?

 

@Klorox:
Not really. Stealth takes about a full round to wear off (unless you do something hostile to expose yourself) so you don't have to worry about missing the backstab 'window'. The only time it would matter when going to backstab is if you fail a stealth check on the way to your target, and a full round passes before you can get in a hit. But that wouldn't happen very often in BG2; you can really boost your HS and MS easily.

 

Are you a straight Thief [kit]? If yes, then your THAC0 and damage must suck. In that case you might want to take whatever weapon that has the highest enchantment. If its a 1D4 +5 dagger, you know you will get 6xbackstab damage atleast.

However if you have fighter levels your THAC0 and damage might be good enough that you dont have to worry about not connecting. In that case a Katana is your best bet since it has the max possible damage potential and a 1D10 could do more damage than a 1D4+5.

 

The biggest problem, I think, is whether you can get the damage in before the mage casts protections - stoneskin being the most likely, but also mantle or prot from magic items. IIRC they have a speed factor of 1, so a weapon with a speed factor of 0 is at an obvious advantage here. After all, unlike 3rd ed., stoneskin stops the hit regardless how much damage it does. Of all katanas, only the upgraded Hindo's doom has a 0 speed factor, and iirc only a very high-level fighter (resp. fighter-thief) could get a speed factor bonus.Although there might have been a bonus if you had a star in the single-weapon style, I can't remember now.
Still, Hindo's doom boasts a decent 5-14 damage, and has a 0 speed factor, so I'd say it's good for a wee bit of 'stabbing. Hey, a chance for a 70 before any other boni kick in isn't half bad. Other quick weapons you'd do well to consider:
- Longsword - angurvadal, both the normal and upgraded version have a SF of 0. The upgraded one also has good damage - 6-13, 2-4 fire damage, and boosts your strength to 22 => more attack and damage (or at least frees your belt slot)
- Scimitars - Usuno / Yamato - both with 5-12 damage and +4 to attack. chance for 2-20 electrical damage or -1 to AC, take your pick.
- daggers - Dagger of the Star (6-9 damage, 5% chance for more) - nifty, but kinda low maximum. The fire tooth does not have a 0 SF (it has one, same as celestial fury), and that isn't so good, even though it has the highest damage for a knife.
- Hammers - never backstabbed with a hammer, but if it is possible, check the runehammer - 0 SF even before upgrade, 7-13 damage (at +5), tons more for undead, protections... Nice, especially if you have Crom in your left hand...
- Short swords - practically anything +2 or better has 0 SF, Mask +5 is perhaps the niftiest for a backstab.

Also, I heard that staves work for backstabbing, so the Ram (+6), although it has a SF of 1, could be an incredibly hard hitter.

 

I checked on the Star dagger - it's a +4 before being upgraded. The percentage chance of the thief going invisible on hit is very low (5% with +4, 15% with upgrade), as is the chance of the upgrade to do 1d8 fire and 1d8 electrical damage. It's speed factor is 0.

There's a long sword or short sword (can't remember which) dropped by a thrall when you rescue Haer'Dalis with a 0 SF.

I think if you are going to do a lot of baskstabbing or backsmacking, something that makes you invisible seems worth it, like Dagger of the Star and Staff of the Magi. These are just my opinions, as I've never been very successful backstabbing.

 

It's been said before but it bears repeating: it's impossible to backstab with Staff of the Magi. Only weapons that are normally useable by a single-class thief are allowed. UAI doesn't overcome this restriction.

For the same reason, you can't backstab with hammers.

Another thing to consider when choosing a backstab weapon is elemental damage (Firetooth, Blackblood, etc.), because it punches through stoneskin and the like. So if you try to backstab a mage and his stoneskin goes up for some reason before you actually hit him, you'll still cause some damage and possibly disrupt his spellcasting. Weapons that deal damage over a few rounds are especially valuable in that regard -- the splintered club (Gnasher?) comes to mind. Other effects, like CF's stun, can be very useful to a backstabber; even if you can't damage the target (because of protections and whatnot) you can still put it out of commission for a few rounds.

 

I'm actually playing a FMT, but this question is a general one.

I thought, since it's a sneak attack and the Wizard won't know it's coming, you'll get it in before he casts his defensive spell, no matter what the speed factor of the weapon is.

 

Maybe, but a lot of mages have contingencies that kick in at the start of the battle and are nearly instant, especially in ToB.

 

Aye, the key is to have the backstab as your first action, before the rest of the party hove into view. Of course, this isn't always possible, but you can always have someone Breach the protections and then hit the mage. Generally, this equals death for the wizard. Also, things like CF's stun effect will work through Stoneskin or Mirror Image.

Anyway, IIRC Klorox is soloing, so the issue of the party isn't really relevant.

 

Celestial fury is as fast as any dagger in the game due to it's enchantment level. Remember also that elemental damage won't be multiplied on a backstab, so CF is going to hurt a lot more than firetooth. That said....I heartily reccomend Angurvadal after the upgrade since it raises your strength. Before then, you should probably stick with Black Razor. Before you go to heck you should probably stick with celestial fury. This is all a moot point though, since we all know that the best bet is to use the staff of striking until you aquire the staff of the ram, whether you upgrade it or not!

 

I've found the best backstabs are produced by dual-wielding CF and CF. No, I'm not talking about the two-Celestial Fury bug; if you put Celestial Fury in your main hand and Crom Faeyr in your off hand, you can backstab with Celestial Fury and a strength of 25! I've done over 200 damage with a critical x5 backstab.

 

What thief level do you get the x5 backstab? Also, I think I'll go with the belt that grants a 23 STR, and use a different offhand weapon (but that's just me... the 25 STR backstab is nasty man!).