Dual classing

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Because of the amount of questions I've seen on Dual classing I am pondering about making a dual classing guide.

I've already made the first chapter:

"What is dual classing?
Dual classing is an ability only available to human characters.
The goal of dual classing is making a character having both the benefits and (as little as possible) penalties of both classes.
First you choose a class you wish to start from (primary class). Not all classes are allowed to do this, but we will come back to that later in this document. Next you gain levels until you reach the level at which you want to dual class. Then you choose dual class at the record screen and select the class you want to dual class to (secondary class).
Here's how it works: Until you press that dual class button nothing out of the ordinary happens. If you don't understand anything until the point of dual classing you are reading the wrong document. Then you press the dual class button and select the class you wish to dual class to. You lose all of the abilities of the first class. You lose all weapon proficiencies, saving throws, thieving skills, innate abilities (Bhaal abilities not included) and spell casting abilities of the primary class, also the thac0 is lost. Don't worry you will get all these things back later. You do get to keep the hit points of the primary class. You also get to keep the stats (strength, dexterity etc.) and their modifiers (to thac0 and other things). Also all the items equiped on the main character are dropped if they are not usable by the secondairy class.
So what's happened now? We have become the second class. We are now a level 1 character of the secundairy class with the hitpoints of the primary class. The new class is not very strong because it is at level 1. So a good idea is to do very simple quests with not too powerful enemies. Another possibility is to disarm traps or to scribe scrolls for fast levelling up. As long as you don't reach a higher level than the primary class your hitpoints will be on a halt.
At a certain point the secundairy class will become 1 level higher than the original class and that is where the merging of the two classes happens. You get access to the abilities of both classes, so a thief/mage will be able to cast spells (when not wearing any armor) and use thieving abilities, and a fighter/mage will be able to cast spells and fight with a nice thac0.
In the next chapter we will look into what we get to keep and what we will lose of our abilities."

This is only a start and nothing substantial yet.
The important things will be put in the next chapters.
Let me know what you think?

 

Not bad. I'll probably never read it but still. No offense meant, it's just that I already know how it works so I don't need a guide. Good work though .

 

Details of a dual classed character.
Hitpoints
You will get the hitpoints of the primary class + the hitpoints of the secundairy classes level above that of the primary class. So say a level 10 fighter has 100 hp. Then he is dualed to mage. Until the mage reaches level 11 the hitpoints will be 100hp, and at level 11 the character will have 100 + 1 = 101 hp. If you dual a fighter to a mage you will most likely have far more hp than when you dual from mage to fighter

Weapon Proficiencies
For each weapon type the game will determine which class has the most proficiences in that weapon. You get those proficiency points, so proficiences are not cumulative. After that point you can specialize to the point of the class who has the highest maximum. A fighter can fully specialize, so a fighter/cleric can fully specialize too.
To know what weapons a dual classed character can use read this list top down. The first class you come across that is either primary or secundary will determine the usable weapons
Cleric / Druid: If one of the two classes is a cleric or Druid you will only be able to use the weapons of the priest's class. Other proficiency slots will be wasted.
Fighter: A fighter will be able to use all weapons unless the chosen fighter kit has restrictions. Neither a thief kit or a mage kit will place any restrictions on this.
Thief: A thief will be able to use all weapons available to the thief kit. If you have ToB there is a way around the druid or fighter kit restriction but you'll figure it out.
Mage: If you came up to this point you have done something wrong. Mage kit doesn't place any restrictions on weapon usage, so you have probably missed the other class.

Saving throws
At or after the merging point a system equivalent to the proficiency system is used. Each saving throw is tested individually against both classes and the best saving throws are kept. This test is repeated every time you level up.

Spells
Ranger clerics can cast all priest spells (druid and cleric). Spell merging is equivalent to saving throw merging. Spell casting restrictions caused by armor remain in place, but mc characters can wear the best armor of the both classes (although wearing armor can cause the spells or thieving abilities for that matter to be unavailable until armor is taken off)

Thac0
Thac0 uses the same system as saving throws

Dual classing possibilities

Ok, by now you should have a good idea of what dual classing is.
Knowing what it is we're going to take a look at the combinations we can choose from.

Kensai: Cleric, Mage, Druid
Fighters (all other kits): Cleric, Mage, Druid, Thief

Ranger, Beastmaster: Cleric
Archer, Stalker: Can't dual

Cleric (any): Fighter, Mage, Thief

Druid (any): Fighter

Mages (all but [ToB class]) : Fighter, Cleric, Thief

Thieves: Fighter, Cleric, Mage

Paladins, Sorcerer, Barbarian, Bards: Can't dual

Note: Possible combinations may differ depending on expansions or patches installed.

As you can see, the primary class can be any kit,
the second class can only be a main class.

An Avenger can dual class to fighter,
but only if you find some way of increasing his strength by one point.

Kensai/Clerics and beastmaster/clerics are not very powerful.

When choosing any dual classing combination I would advice to choose the class with the most hitpoints as primary class because it will give you a hp advantage early in the game, and most likely you will end up with more hp.
Unless you are looking for a specific kit that shouldn't be much of a problem.

For the primary class the stats and alignment are always valid.
Remember that thieves can't be lawful good, druids have to be true neutral and Rangers have to be of good alignment.
This is an important thing to think about when creating the character.

As for the stat's:
http://www.sorcerers.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=003591#000000
I'm gonna add a couple of those tables,
and add Extremist to my thank you section

By the way, is anyone still reading this?
If so just post anything so I know I'm not doing this work for nothing.

[ August 30, 2002, 15:40: Message edited by: StressedE ]

 

I'm still reading it. Once this is completed, you should have it accessible on SP in the games section as a Dual-Class Guide. Very good.

 

When to dual class

You now know what dual classing is, and what possibilities there are.
It's time to take a look at when is the best time to dual class.

First we're going to take a look at what is the latest possible level to dual class if the X-Cap of 2.950.000 is in place:

Fighter -> Mage --- level13 (& level14)
Fighter -> Cleric --- level13 (& level15)
Fighter -> Druid --- level13 (& level14)
Fighter -> Thief --- level14 (& level16)

Ranger -> Cleric --- level13 (& level14)

Cleric -> Fighter --- level13 (& level15)
Cleric -> Mage --- level13 (& level14)
Cleric -> Thief --- level15 (& level16)

Druid -> Fighter --- level13 (& level16)

Mage -> Fighter --- level13 (& level15)
Mage -> Cleric --- level13 (& level16)
Mage -> Thief --- level14 (& level16)

Thief -> Fighter --- level 14(& level16)
Thief -> Cleric --- level 15(& level16)
Thief -> Mage --- level14 (& level15)

Dualing from fighter
When you have chosen the fighter as the primary class I would advise dualing at level 9 or level 13. Fighters get an extra attack per round at level 13. Dual at level 13 if you want to have a Dual class character superior in combat. Dual at level 9 if you're only looking for a mage cleric or druid with superior hitpoints. Fighters get 9 hit dice, after that point you get 3hp/level dualing as early as level 9 will allow you to have almost all of the hitpoints, and still being able to cast level 7 priest spells or level 8 mage spells.

Dualing from ranger
Dualing from ranger is very similar to dualing from fighter, except that the ranger gets an extra 1/2 attack at level 13, and not a whole extra attack.

Dualing from cleric
Things to keep in mind when choosing cleric as the primary class;
1) You will not be able to cast level 7 spells unless the second class is a thief.
2) The last level 6 spell is gained at level 12.
Cleric thieves should dual at level 14 or 15 (for the level7 spell)
Otherwise level 13 is probably the best level to dual,
unless you are dualing to mage, and really want 2 level 8 spells.
In that special case level 9 is the best level to dual.
(although you will be giving up most of your cleric spells)

Dualing from mage
Dualing from mage is similar to dualing from cleric.
1) The last level 6 spell is gained at 13.
2) At level 14 you only gain 1 level 7 spell (2 when specialized)
To be able to cast level 7 priest spells dual at level 12 or earlier
I would strongly advice dualing from cleric instead of from mage when creating a cleric/mage, because of the higher hitpoints the cleric has.

Dualing from bounty hunter
Dual between level 11 and level15 because the special traps are the most powerfull then.

Dualing from swashbuckler
Dual at level 10 or level 15 because his bonusses come every 5 levels

Dualing from other thief
Dual at level 13 for x5 backstab multiplier

All classes
There is no perfect level to dual class.
Dualing early will make accessing your abilities easier.
Dualing late usually leads to a more powerfull character.... eventually.
I gave you the reasons I took into consideration when dual classing,
if yours are different that's great too.
Use my guide to see if you overlooked anything, not as a strict manual.
Remember that these are only guidelines.
I'm not going to add a section with the ToB X-Cap in place,
because in ToB dual classing is seriously crippled,
and because this guide should make you able to determine the criteria of when to dual class by yourself. Happy dual classing!