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The Polite Robber

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Barmy Army, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

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    Barmy Army, Feb 9, 2011
    #1
  2. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    Birarre indeed - unbelivable even. He's probably going to get caught. They have a very clear picture of him, and that video is sure to go viral. He's done.
     
    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot, Feb 9, 2011
    #2
  3. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    I saw this on the news. My understanding is that they caught the guy, but the cashier declined to press charges. Not sure if that is 100% accurate, but that's what I heard.
     
    dmc, Feb 9, 2011
    #3
  4. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    Weird story.

    If true, and no charges are filed, it would just be further evidence that, no matter what you do, good manners can make all the difference.
     
    Ragusa, Feb 9, 2011
    #4
  5. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    The owner can decide that? I thought if you committed a felony (like armed robbery) - at least in the US - the county or state pressed charges, and the owner would go to civil court of he wanted compensation.
     
    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot, Feb 9, 2011
    #5
  6. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Sometimes hard to press charges without a witness to authenticate recordings and events.

    Think about the Kobe Bryant rape case that went away with the settlement. The rape case didn't change, but with the witness no longer willing to side with the authorities -- POOF -- no more criminal case.
     
    dmc, Feb 9, 2011
    #6
  7. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    I guess that makes sense. If (theoretically) there was someone else who saw the guy leave the store - and was willing to be a witness - would the case likely proceed?

    I guess the legal question I'm asking boils down to this: Is it the police/local DA that decides which cases go to trial, or is it the victim that does? (I guess technically, it's a grand jury that decides, but who decides if it should go before a grand jury?)

    To use a case similar to the Kobe case, take Ben Roethlisberger - there had to be tons of witnesses who saw him, yet the GBI (Geogia Bureau of Investigations) said there was insufficient evidence to get a conviction. Was the girl's willingness to testify considered?
     
    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot, Feb 9, 2011
    #7
  8. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Grand Jury is for Federal cases.
     
    Blackthorne TA, Feb 9, 2011
    #8
  9. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Seeing him leave doesn't really do the trick. He'd need to have seen the actual robbery.

    The DA (or equivalent) is the ultimate decision maker, but a recalcitrant witness is a very good reason not to go forward.

    With Ben, we really don't know what the actual testimony was. IIRC, the girl's friends did not actually see anything happen. The girl herself was significantly impaired so could most likely no present credible testimony. Ben sure as heck wasn't going to testify against his 5th Amendment rights and, again IIRC, his bodyguards were not in the room.

    Thus, there was no eye witness testimony and I don't know what the rape kit showed as far as force goes.

    So, there's some (maybe a lot) circumstantial evidence, but is it enough to convict a celebrity of rape? Remember two things -- (1) the standard is beyond a reasonable doubt, not "gee that looks pretty skeevy of Ben" and (2) celebrities hire really smart and good lawyers, not public defenders, who will absolutely skewer everything in your case that can be skewered.

    Just ask some of the DA's in my neck of the woods about their track records against celebrities . . .
     
    dmc, Feb 9, 2011
    #9
  10. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

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    I found what I supect is the correct answer to this at Yahoo! Answers, of all places:

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070220102134AASGKdT

    Also, I'm pretty sure states and sometimes even counties convene grand juries. They have in my state in a few prominent murder cases.
     
    Gaear, Feb 9, 2011
    #10
  11. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    While there are federal grand juries, they are not limited to federal cases. I served on a grand jury for Baltimore County a few years back. At least in Maryland, all felony-level crimes have to go before a grand jury before they go to court. Here's some more info that even differentiates between federal and other types of grand juries: Link.

    That's what I thought, although I see how a reluctant witness could make it very difficult for the prosecution.

    Oh certainly - Ben is definitely guilty in the court of public opinion of being skeevy.
     
    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot, Feb 9, 2011
    #11
  12. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Let me give you an example of what I would think the defense for Ben would have been if the case went forward. This is based only on what I remember of the case, which is him being in a back room, the bodyguards hustling the drunk girl in, locking them in, and refusing her friends entry. It assumes the rape kit is inconclusive.

    Ben's Story: Look, I'm a single guy. I'm a Super Bowl winning quarterback. I'm not particularly good looking, but everywhere I go, I get hit on by girls all the time. I like to have fun, I like to have sex. I'm not interested in settling down. There's nothing illegal in having sex with college girls of age. You may not like it, but you're not my mom.

    What generally happens to me, is I go to a bar and get recognized, and girls hit on me nonstop until I leave. I'm pretty OK with that, why do you think I go there? Sometimes, I just want to be left alone. Sometimes, I bang 'em. Again, you're not my mother and I'm not married.

    I hire bodyguards to keep people away from me and, when I want to bang 'em, to give us some privacy. They verify the age and let me go about my business.

    Best I can tell, what happened that night was that the girl was hitting on me, I was interested, the bodyguards checked her age and let her in and we had some fun. I don't know how much she had to drink. You're not my mom and I'm not her dad.

    The next day I find out that some of her friends are making a racket because they weren't allowed in. Guess what, I wanted one on one, not a threesome or foursome. I didn't force her and she was all in while it was going on. If she has second thoughts or regrets, well, that's really her problem not mine.

    It's not particularly admirable but, again, I'm not married and you're not my mom.

    To me, while obnoxious, it presents more than enough reasonable doubt.
     
    dmc, Feb 9, 2011
    #12

  13. LKD Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone

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    dmc, you are probably bang on as to how the defense would go. There would have to be some evidence provided that the girl herself was trying to get OUT and was prevented. If the girl claims that she just can't remember what happened, then she's not super credible as a witness, so that kind of cancels out the fact that she may not have been able to form consent. He seems to have been drunk too (I only know what you posted) and maybe he doesn't even remember if they actually had sex. So as skeevy as it is, it's not likely to result in a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt.
     
    LKD, Feb 9, 2011
    #13
  14. Shoshino

    Shoshino Irritant Veteran

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    He's been charged

     
    Shoshino, Feb 9, 2011
    #14
  15. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Interesting. I wonder if the politeness is the keep the people he robs from acting violently and to perhaps delay in reporting it. Busted!
     
    dmc, Feb 9, 2011
    #15
  16. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    Not to side-track the topic too much, but in Ben's case she did go the hospital and they ran the rape kit. While I do not remember the use of the term "inconclusive", I do remember that "no usable DNA was recovered". That doesn't mean she didn't have sex. It could mean that he simply used a condom. There was never a suggestion of violence, so it isn't unusual that they didn't find any skin cells under her fingernails or anything like that.

    So in Ben's case, while the consensual sex is the most obvious defense - i.e., the Kobe defense - I'm not even sure they would have needed to that. I would imagine in order to prove someone was sexually assaulted, you'd at least have to be able to prove they had sex, which I'm not sure they could have in this case.
     
    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot, Feb 10, 2011
    #16

  17. nior Gems: 24/31
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    Maybe it's because nobody taught him to play those violent video games that psychologist wanted to ban. :grin:
     
    nior, Feb 15, 2011
    #17
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