Protection for a Kensai?

[Eyebreaker7]

What do you give a Kensai to give him/her a good AC? Armor & bracers of AC are out so what do you do?

[Paracelsi]

Nothing. You could raise his AC a bit with various AC bonus rings and cloaks (Rings of Gaax, Sewer Cloak, Rings/Cloaks of Protection, Shield Amulet) but he'll never have really good AC. Don't worry though, Kensais are human blenders and will shred just about anything easily given levels. AC won't be a problem unless you solo.

If you really want to trade extra damage for survivability you can dual class him/her to mage (for buffs like Stoneskin), thief (for Use Any Item) or even druid (Ironskins).

[Blades of Vanatar]

SoA only...for starters I use...

- 2 Slots in Single Weapon Style (+2 AC) or the best Shield you can find with 2 slots in Weapon & Shield style. I like using the Fortress Shield(+4 AC, +7 vs. missles).
- Cloak of the Sewers (+1 AC, plus turn into Jelly, Rat or Carrion Crawler)
- Ring of Protection (+2 AC)
- Ring of Earth Control (+1 AC amongst othe abilities)
- Balduran's Helm (+1 AC, HP bonus)
- 18 or 19 Dex at character creation, depending on Race (+4 AC)
- Girdle of Piercing (+4 AC vs. Missles)
- Defender of Easthaven(+2 Flail bought from Add-on Merchant in the Copper Coronet, +1 AC bonus)

Total from above for Level 9 Kensai with Fortress Shield and Defender of Easthaven = (-6) AC, (-13 vs. missles). Even better if you use the Shield Amulet. ToB expands on this, as does any add-on mod.

[Paracelsi]

Remember Kensais can't use shields, and most enemies you encounter in ToB have really, really good THAC0.

[Blades of Vanatar]

Doh! No shields!

[Sir Rechet]

Aren't there a whole lot of spell buffs that mimic wearing armor? Mage Armor, Ghost Armor, Spirit Armor and Barkskin (Druid) come to mind immediately, but I'm sure there are others. Sure, some of them are caster only, but IIRC the best of them, Spirit Armor, can be cast on other party members. This way you're only marginally behind someone wearing an actual suit of Full Plate...

[Yoshimo's Heart]

Shield amulet and the barkskin spell are good options. A better option is just tactics to survive. Kensais are skirmishers which means they should attack swiftly and hit for big damage but not get stuck in the middle of a big group in whcih case run away. You should try to single out opponents and try to keep the enemy focused on a tank character. Using smart tactics will save you more than a few points of AC especially in ToB where many of the worst enemies will hit you easily even with max AC.

[Blades of Vanatar]

More itmes for the Kensai....

- Arbanes Sword(or another of the shortswords, don't remember which) - Mirror Image effect.
- Any item that allows your to "Blur". I believe their is a couple of items that do this. My game is so heavily modded though, I almost forget what is from the vanilla game theses days.
- Ring of Invisibility/Ring of Air Control/Potion of Invisibility allows your Kensai to jump all over someone.
- Potions of Defense & Invulnerbility

[henkie]

Low AC for a Kensai is not very important. What you want to do is to get the enemies to attack your tank, and then have your Kensai attack from behind the front lines. They can't use missile weapons either, so you might want to put some throwing axes on him too.

For better AC or more generally, survivability, you could dual to either a mage or a thief.

Very late game, you could also equip the Big Metal Unit - with this even ToB enemies won't hit you all of the time.

[Sir Rechet]

Yeah, tactics > AC in Baldur's Gate, in general. Sure, Full plate together with all the bells and whistles is quite impenetrable in most of BG1, except for the biggest bosses where it counts the most.

Luckily both Stone/Iron Skins and straight physical damage resist/immunity routes are viable alternatives so it's not all or nothing.

[SlickRCBD]

No matter how unimportant you say AC is, I still find it still helps to max out the AC on as many characters as possible. So, I agree with the OP in asking for the best things available to kit out his Kensai with.
I try to give some decent AC to my MAGE in case he gets targeted by an archer or an invisible thief tries to backstab him (probably succeeds and hits a stoneskin or mirror image). That way the protection lasts longer than one spell, since sometimes one isn't enough.

[Paracelsi]

I'm pretty sure everyone does that, I think what most of us are trying to point out is that you shouldn't go out of your way to try and raise the AC of someone like the party Kensai. Wouldn't those AC bonus items be better off in the hands of someone else, like the party tanker?

Sure all extra AC items should be given to everyone else.

[henkie]

True, AC does have it's uses, especially for spells like iron/stoneskin and mirror image.

This is especially noticeable when you solo for instance a R/C. In BG, pure AC is enough - go down to around -8 or -9 with full plate armor and a big shield and you won't get hit that often anymore. In SoA, AC alone won't cut it anymore, but in combination with ironskins, you can still get by quite well. In ToB, nothing will save you and you'll need to either draw them out one by one or just kill them quicker than they are killing you.

In a party, this is not so pronounced, as you already have other party members acting as decoys. I will generally put the cloak of sewers, the ring of gaxx, a ring of protection and the helm of Balduran on a Kensai to give him the best AC possible, but it still won't help very much.

[Sir Rechet]

Originally Posted by Paracelsi

You shouldn't go out of your way to try and raise the AC of someone like the party Kensai. Wouldn't those AC bonus items be better off in the hands of someone else, like the party tanker?

Exactly. If you have a choice of having both your tank and your Kensai sit at around -8 AC or having a tank with -12 and a Kensai with -4, you really should prioritize the tank!

AC isn't like hitpoints where every added point gives equal benefit. AC benefits you exponentially - the better you have, the more you gain by making it yet another point better. Yes, including ToB - you just need to get well into the negative ACs first for it to matter AT ALL, but the same principle applies after that.

[Eyebreaker7]

1] At what level would you suggest dual classing to a mage & why?

2] Druid?

3] thief?

[Marceror]

It sort of depends on your overall party situation, and how patient you are. I would at least go to 7 as a fighter, as this will grant you an extra 1/2 attack. If you dual class at 9 you will get the benefit of high hit points for longer. For the truly hardcore, you could dual at 13, which gives yet another 1/2 attack, but it's going to be a hell of a long time before you hit level 14 as a mage and get your fighter levels back (assuming you do all side quests in chapter 2/3), you'll probably get to mage 14 sometime near the end of chapter 5.

The questions you have to ask, can you wait that long to gain the mage levels (i.e. do you have another mage to take those duties in the mean time). Are you patient enough to wait until near the end of the game to see the full potential of your high level dual class?

13 is too extreme for most. I find that dual classing at level 9 feels good in BG2.

This applies regardless of what class you plan to dual into. What's important is the level of your first class, Kensai.

You should also take the following into account when starting as a Kensai:
- +1 bonus to hit and damage for every 3 levels
- -1 to Speed for every 4 levels
- Kai ability (10 second attack at maximum damage) once per day for every 4 levels

This may tempt you to want to push it until level 12, for more Kai per day, faster speed, and an additional bonus to attack and damage. Still, even level 12 is going to take a while, and once you're there, you might as well hold out for 13 to get the extra attack.

[Eyebreaker7]

OK so we've discussed protection. Thanks for the info people. Much appreciated
Now what about weapons? Right now I'm looking at the Flail of Ages and Celestial Fury.
Or maybe Crom Faeyr & The +5 Axe of Unyielding? Any weapon can be suggested. I have to admit that I cheat in items. Especially weapons. I like to get to use the damn things before the end of the game. Lol.

[henkie]

Originally Posted by Marceror

The questions you have to ask, can you wait that long to gain the mage levels (i.e. do you have another mage to take those duties in the mean time). Are you patient enough to wait until near the end of the game to see the full potential of your high level dual class?

13 is too extreme for most. I find that dual classing at level 9 feels good in BG2.

Even if you design for maximum end-game efficiency (I tend to do that), there's also the maximum level that you can attain in the second class that is a factor to take into consideration, aside from the points Marceror already mentioned.

Mages, druids, rangers, paladins and fighters pretty much gain levels until the end. Clerics and especially thiefs don't. As Ineth wonderfully shows in this thread he made, you could take 13 fighter levels before dualling to a thief and you'd still be able to reach lvl 39 as a thief. With the same amount of fighter levels, you'd still be able to get 38 lvls as a cleric.

On the other hand if you go to fighter lvl 13 and then dual to a mage, you'd only be able to become lvl 27 (possibly 28, I'm not sure) as a mage. Which is still not a lot of difference, I guess, since mages don't really gain a lot of spells above lvl 20 or so.

I'd say for mages and druids, stick to lvl 9 fighter, for thiefs and clerics you can go up to lvl 13. If you don't mind the wait.

As for weapons, for a F/M dual class, you can't go wrong with quarterstaffs. The staff of rynn early SoA and staff of the ram for later on, combined with the staff of the magi to quickly disappear if you do get into trouble. Going the two-handed route, you could put extra points (don't know how many you'd have as a mage) into two-handed swords or halberds. There's even some great spears, so plenty of choice.

For dual wielding, there's a lot of good options as well. There's a katana that gives you extra bonus spells, though I don't find it too useful. Longswords is always good for the Equaliser to give you immunity to charm and confusion and the fact that there are many, many good longswords. FoA is a good choice too, but you may want to reserve it for whoever is on cleric duty. Axe of the unyielding is good, as is Foebane.

For a Kensai/mage, you may want to invest a little in axes, as you can't use any other ranged weaponry.

Really, there's really no wrong choice.

[Marceror]

For a Kensai/Mage type build, I do like to include Crom Faeyr as an offhand weapon. Not only is this a great weapon, but when you consider that your character's THAC0 advancement is going to slow to all hell after you switch to mage, the 25 str bonus that you will receive will supplement your attack abilities quite a lot.

Celestial Fury (katana) is a nice main hand weapon. If your Low AC Kensai ever gets into a jam, the stun effect is a nice defensive ability to have. With Westley Weimer's Item Upgrade Mod you can upgrade it to be a +5 weapon, so it will be useful through the end of Throne of Bhaal.

[Amnasty]

Kensai is the best fighter Kit and IMO only Kit worth playing every-time.
Tough to achieve Double digit AC without Mods. Plus from many items that offer 'Magic Protection' are hardly any for him to wear.

1. Firstly the best option - Dual to Thief at L13. Very Easy and suitable for medium party. Can manage to reach HLA "Use Any Item" midway easily too.
2. Dual to Mage at L12. Little time consuming to recover Fighter Levels but Mage abilities help to offset the delay and with medium (3-4 total) party HLA is just easy to achieve.
3. Dual To Druid at L12. Very Interesting and fun to play with. Druids have so many spell slots to experiment plus Creeping Doom and Natures Beauty are game changer in TOB affecting everything from mages to fighters. Downside are the Rolls to creating character but it's still passable.
4. Dual to Cleric at L9. Making your prime cleric in the party with added grandmastery in the weapon. Very suitable for Good party and an alternative for Anomen (if you really hate him!.. I Do)

But my favorite for a challenging gameplay all-in-all is to play a Single Kensai with a supported Mage, Cleric and a Fighter. With some strategy and making good use of Mage Spells on him Kensai becomes deadly machine of destruction by the end of SOA. He becomes a chopping tool to rapidly cut down groups of deadly fighters with his improved speed to weapon and To Hit+Damage Bonuses. Try some throwing axes with Grandmastery on Mages/Dragons during Time Stop with Fighter/Mage Dual Class they die before contingencies pop up.
No need to worry about AC since he will rarely ever miss with Hits. No enemy by the end of SOA or TOB can manage the speed rate a Kensai manages to achieve which really itself is a great deal of protection for him. He Kills most enemies before they hurt him. The only thing hurts him is Magic which can be solved by having Mazzy or a strong missile fighter for harassing Mages and giving some breathing room for Kensai.

Best weapon Combo
- Flail of Ages + East Heaven Defender for SOA
- Katana (for speed) + Usono's Blade for SOA


- Foebane (or Axe of Unyielding/Storm Star) + Crom Faeyr for TOB
- Foebane + Angurvadal /Hindo's Doom/Spectral Brand for TOB

Also, Yamato has no elemental damage and AC bonus won't help either against mages. Carsomyr and Halberds for dual-class Thief and Staffs + Grandmastery in Short Bows for dual-class Mages.

[virtualsri]

Originally Posted by Amnasty

Kensai is the best fighter Kit and IMO only Kit worth playing every-time.
Tough to achieve Double digit AC without Mods. Plus from many items that offer 'Magic Protection' are hardly any for him to wear.

1. Firstly the best option - Dual to Thief at L13. Very Easy and suitable for medium party. Can manage to reach HLA "Use Any Item" midway easily too.
2. Dual to Mage at L12. Little time consuming to recover Fighter Levels but Mage abilities help to offset the delay and with medium (3-4 total) party HLA is just easy to achieve.
3. Dual To Druid at L12. Very Interesting and fun to play with. Druids have so many spell slots to experiment plus Creeping Doom and Natures Beauty are game changer in TOB affecting everything from mages to fighters. Downside are the Rolls to creating character but it's still passable.
4. Dual to Cleric at L9. Making your prime cleric in the party with added grandmastery in the weapon. Very suitable for Good party and an alternative for Anomen (if you really hate him!.. I Do)

But my favorite for a challenging gameplay all-in-all is to play a Single Kensai with a supported Mage, Cleric and a Fighter. With some strategy and making good use of Mage Spells on him Kensai becomes deadly machine of destruction by the end of SOA. He becomes a chopping tool to rapidly cut down groups of deadly fighters with his improved speed to weapon and To Hit+Damage Bonuses.
No need to worry about AC since he will rarely ever miss with Hits. No enemy by the end of SOA or TOB can manage the speed rate a Kensai manages to achieve which really itself is a great deal of protection for him. He Kills most enemies before they hurt him. The only thing hurts him is Magic which can be solved by having Mazzy or a strong missile fighter for harassing Mages and giving some breathing room for Kensai.

Best weapon Combo
- Flail of Ages + East Heaven Defender for SOA
- Katana (for speed) + Usono's Blade for SOA


- Foebane (or Axe of Unyielding) + Crom Faeyr for TOB
- Foebane + Hindo's Doom/Spectral Brand for TOB

well regarding the best team I support and an evil party has the best of all you have suggested above. I just love that combination of my kensai or kentheif + Korgan + Edwin + Viconia..... Ooooh lala

---------- Added 0 hours, 2 minutes and 52 seconds later... ----------

I love playing kensai theif always and I give him grandmastery in quarterstaves for the ultimate backstabber Staff of the Ram.

taking grandmastery in katanas is also pretty good if you have Weimers celestial fury.

I have also tried dual weilding CF and Cromfaeyer

[Yoshimo's Heart]

Meh Berserkers are certainly worth having and are a good kit to use. Great offense is nice but so is living. Berserker immunities are awesome and can really save your butt against some tough enemies and have more than enough offensive power to get the job done. I will say thought that kensais are powerful and fun though and are in the running as best kit though only if your criteria is "kill it fast".

Not sure if it is fair to bring up the thief dual class though for this thread. There is no point in asking about defenses when you can wear anything you want.

[Amnasty]

Originally Posted by Yoshimo's Heart

Meh Berserkers are certainly worth having and are a good kit to use. Great offense is nice but so is living. Berserker immunities are awesome and can really save your butt against some tough enemies and have more than enough offensive power to get the job done.

Game offers 2 Enrage Fighters but not a Kensai. Kensai's abilities are not his offensive side but strengths and that's his way of living (survival without immunities). Kensai with a support party and even without a second fighter provides a lot of challenge. This game is really easy with immunities and items available on every area that soon start spoon feeding my Protagonist making him lazy, lame and dependent. Playing like a monk, kensai or any less powerful yet developing character gives a great deal of accomplishment.

the idea of playing BG2 with such characters only and using the NPC's to fill the dis-advantages of such a protagonist is pure fun.

[virtualsri]

Originally Posted by Amnasty

Kensai with a support party and even without a second fighter provides a lot of challenge. This game is really easy with immunities and items available on every area that soon start spoon feeding my Protagonist making him lazy, lame and dependent. Playing like a monk, kensai or any less powerful yet developing character gives a great deal of accomplishment.

the idea of playing BG2 with such characters only and using the NPC's to fill the dis-advantages of such a protagonist is pure fun.

I double on that, it feels great to grow through the game like running away from goblins to a real demigod

[Eyebreaker7]

I don't get the option to dual class to anything but a cleric or mage. No thief or Druid How did you?


Also, where can I find the tables for what class gets what at what level? I don't have the books and shouldn't have to go buy them to play a video game. Lol

---------- Added 3 hours, 13 minutes and 49 seconds later... ----------

Well I just uninstalled it, re-booted and re-installed BG2 + ToB but still I can only get the kensai to dual into a cleric or mage and that's it. I haven't installed anything else. No mods yet.
Is it something that can only be done in SoA and not ToB