O Canada!

[Master of Nuhn]

That's nice, Harbs. Now find me a brunette!

Btw, you can left-click the pic, take the url from the properties and wrap it in image-tags. IMG and /IMG (with the [], of course)

This link
http://www.joeydevilla.com/wordpress...is-prevost.jpg
would show like this

[Aldeth the Foppish Idiot]

Originally Posted by Beren

They were paying the lowest tuition in the country beforehand. And still will be, or very close to, after the proposed increases. The demand itself gets zero sympathy from the rest of Canada

They wouldn't get any sympathy from me either. There are people in the US who have questioned the long term value of attending a college or university, simply because tuition rates are such that it would take you a huge amount of time to make up in future earnings what it cost you to go to school in the first place. But that's because tuition at many US schools is upwards of $50,000 per year. As I understand it (and Canadians feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here), you can get a 4-year degree anywhere in Canada for less than that.

You'll likely make up in earnings whatever it is you paid for your degree in a few years. And even if you borrowed the whole thing, it's not like coming out of college in debt $20K or $30K is debilitating. Hell, I graduated from college with $20K in debt, and my loans have been paid off for a few years now. However, there are people that come out of school $200K in debt. That's like buying a house, except you don't have the house. That IS debilitating, unless you did something like go to medical school where a high salary during your career is assured.

Tell those whiny, *****ing, Quebec brats to suck it up!

[LKD]

That pic TOTALLY cheered me up!

Back to the protestors, there's something else. Ofelix is going to hate me for it, and Beren will likely do a facepalm, but it exists and should be discussed.

Canada is a federation of provinces. Like the United States, there is often an issue of provincial (state) rights/jurisdiction vs. federal rights / jurisdiction. This can get dicey. In addition, the country spans a continent. This results in economic disparity between regions as time goes on. Cultures also tend to drift in different directions, as well as languages -- think of the differences between a New Englander's speech compared to that of a Louisiana resident's speech. Of course, Canada has an extra hassle in terms of having two official languages, and anglophones have been in a love/hate relationship with the francophones for centuries, literally centuries!

Now the country is unofficially split into "have" provinces and "have not" provinces. This is a crude way of saying that some provinces are doing well economically and others are suffering. The Maritime provinces* ran into some serious trouble a few decades ago when the fisheries bottomed out. They have been "have not" for decades. So of course, the Federal government decided to take a hand and help out. They helped out via transfer payments.

A transfer payment is basically a way of saying to the "have" provinces that they should help out those who are struggling. Now despite accusations of redneck selfishness, Albertans don't mind helping out those who are down on their luck -- for a short term. But we have been paying through the nose for fricking decades, sending out literally billions of dollars to the "less fortunate" provinces and getting nothing but contempt and ignorance from the rest of the country. Quebec, which has a higher population, decent natural resources, and a much more established industrial base, always manages to get itself classified as a "have not" province, and they cheerfully suck money out of Alberta and the other "have" provinces**. Quebec is a pretty great place to live***, with some of the best social programs in the country, including, as Beren mentioned, the lowest post-secondary tuition in the country, even after the proposed pay hike. Alberta lags behind because we don't have the money for that stuff -- it's all going to the "have nots"!

The question often asked is "why is Alberta paying for Cadillac levels of service in Quebec when we ourselves have only Toyota levels?" It's ridiculous, and just plain unfair. Of course the answer is that the Federal government is paying for votes from the more populous Quebec.

The fact is, though, that people with morals who want to work tend to come to Alberta, as opportunities for employment are pretty good here. Lots of Maritimers come to work in our oil patch****. It's a pretty place, and many settle here. So many come, in fact, that neutral mathematicians and enumerators have determined that we should get more seats in the Federal government, based off the idea of representation by population -- you know, one man, one vote kind of thing? You can imagine how Quebec reacts to that. The Idea of having fair representation is anathema to them. They would lose their perks if the country were actually, you know, democratic. They act like Albertan's desire to have fair electoral districts is an "assault of Francophone culture". We are not out to hurt the Francophone culture, we just want fairness. But fairness is a foreign concept to these people, who see Albertans as merely one step up from slaves, hewing wood and drawing water to support their indolent, self-indulgent snobbery. Not that I'm judgemental.

This explains the reaction of the rest of Canada, particularily Albertans, to these pampered little douchebags complaining in Quebec.

* This refers to the provinces on the East coast of the country: New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland/Labrador, and Prince Edward Island. They kinda overfished and what was their prime industry is now but a pale shadow of what it used to be.

**Alberta and Ontario are "have" provinces. I think sometimes BC is, too. Saskatchewan should be, but it's been mismanaged since it joined Confederation.

*** If you are a Francophone, that is. They do have quite high taxes, much of which goes to unconstitutional laws that "prtect" the French language and culture from the big, bad Anglos. English speakers in Quebec face a great degree of social stigma.

****The city that is at the centre of the Oil Sands is a disaster called Fort McMurray. The disaster is that far too many people have moved in and services have not kept up with the exploding population. Fort McMurray is often called the second largest city in Newfoundland (look at a map, you'll get the joke) in that so many Newfoundlanders go there to work, as unemployment in the Maritimes is so high. I don't begrudge them the work, I just wish the municipal and provincial government would use the tax revenue they are getting from the place to build adequate infrastructure.

[Aldeth the Foppish Idiot]

neutral mathematicians and enumerators have determined that we should get more seats in the Federal government, based off the idea of representation by population

Ummm... doesn't that happen? WTF? Isn't proportional representation the world standard, regardless of whether you go the standard republic way in the US, or a parliamentary system that you see in lots of other countries?

We have a census every 10 years in the US for the express purpose of giving proportional representation in the House of Representatives - more people mean more Congressional Districts and more seats. Less people mean less seats. For example the 2010 Census showed that the population of Texas rose far more rapidly than that rest of the country in the last 10 years, and they got 2 more seats in Congress. Conversely, Michigan's population actually declined. Not relative to the rest of the country - fewer people live in Michigan today than lived there in 2000. That's the only state that showed a net negative drop in their population. Obviously, they lost at least 1 seat, and possibly 2.

[LKD]

The scientists measure and make recommendations, and those recommendations go to government committees, who make the final decision. Those committees are loaded with Quebec representatives (who, IIRC, are guaranteed in our Constitution to always make up 25% of the House of Commons) who are always seeking to hamstring the democratic process in order to maintain their favoured status. In particular they seek to limit any growth of Alberta's political power, as they know it could end the gravy train.

You may think I am overstating the case. I most assuredly am not.

Edit: Here be a link!

And another!

[Ofelix]

LKD, I actually agree with you on the democratic principle of fair representation. However I do resent the gross stereotype that my people are opportunistic lazy people out there to "harmstring democracy" and suck the government money like some sort of vampires.

Originally Posted by LKD

The fact is, though, that people with morals who want to work tend to come to Alberta, as opportunities for employment are pretty good here.

People with morals what the hell is that suppose to mean ? None Albertan are amoral ? Is that it ? wow, seriously?

I'm sick of this bloody country If I'm seriously considering emigrating somewhere else, anywhere ! Bah

[Beren]

Ok, let's calm down a little fellas. At this point, I'm not going to point fingers at anyone or say that the rules have been breached.

But now I want to throw out a caution against any ad hominem, and against any stereotyping.

[LKD]

Ahh, heck, I didn't mean to crash the thread by being a douche. I apologize. Let's take the thread back to a more Whatnots vein than an Alleys one. My bad.

[Master of Nuhn]

I misread and first thought it said "putain" (French curse meaning hooker/****)

About poutine: It makes me think of the Belgian/Dutch "Patatje Stoofvlees" (fries with "carbonade flamande") and the Rotterdam "Kapsalon".

(Heh! There's a link to poutine on the Kapsalon-wiki.)

[reepnorp]

Originally Posted by Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

But that's because tuition at many US schools is upwards of $50,000 per year. As I understand it (and Canadians feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here), you can get a 4-year degree anywhere in Canada for less than that.

Speaking from personal experience here, I graduated last year from a 4 year (5 year if you include co-op/internship) program with a Bachelor of Mathematics, and excluding housing costs, I was paying under $3,500 per term. Through 8 school terms that comes out to about $28,000 for my degree.

Since I can still log in and check my finance information I decided to pull the exact numbers. Strictly for tuition, over my time in university it cost me $19,283. Adding in all the non-housing related incidentals (such as various student fees, services fees and other junk like that), the total is $27,490, and if you include the terms I was paying for on-campus residence, the total I paid the school was $38,276.

Strictly from a tuition standpoint, the cost per term was as follows

$2,192.00
$2,280.00
$2,371.00
$2,371.00
$2,466.00
$550.00 (I was taking one course through distance education while on co-op)
$2,565.00
$2,296.00 (only took four courses this term)

[Beren]

Ok, let's keep this thread on the whatnots, hockey, poutine, etc. things about Canada.

For anyone wanting to discuss the student protests, come to this thread instead:

http://www.sorcerers.net/forums/show...785#post773785

[Munchkin Blender]

Originally Posted by Ofelix

Speaking of the canadian english accent Wiki has a pretty extensive article on the subject. -- I've read a bit of it, but to be honest some of it will be hard to grasp for non linguist. Fortunately for me that's my major. One last thing concerning the subject; to all Americans, the letter "z" is pronounced zed no zee...

There's a saying around here that says the best poutine is eaten at 3AM after the bars closes. I've never tested it myself though.

It is interesting to hear the difference in accents from the U.S northern brother and from within our own country. I work with a few Canadians and this past Friday I learned about the zed and zee differences. Another thing that I have learned over the last 6 years as I have worked with mulitple Canadians is it is pro-cess and not proc-ess.

As for within the United States langauge...I live in New England and the usage fo the F-word is quite common and used within the workplace. However, in southern part of the country such langauge is not used and when someone from New Englad drops a f-bomb - those from the south are insulted due to the langauge being used within the work place.

As for me, I have travel from coast to coast within the United States; you don't need to travel overseas or to another country to see the vast change in culture or langauge. Just drive from Maine to New Mexico from New Mexico to California, etc... Simply driving over a state or two and you find enough difference that it may change your point of view about a specific state or region within the United State.

[Some Guy]

Good post!

1) Poutine is routinely mentioned on "Chilly Beach", which is a great Canadian cartoon (where I am in Mich--SE, near Ann Arbor--we get Ch 9 = CBC/Windsor).

2) "They don't talk like people from the US." Well, 2 things: a) they ARE in the British Commonwealth and b) even "we" Americans don't talk like ourselves, if you compare different regions. I called information for a # in TX--when they actually used to connect you with the local ppl--and got a non-understandable native English speaker many yrs ago.

3) Hmmm...don't know, but Toronto IS the "New York of Canada", if you want to think about it that way. And Ontario IS the economic engine of Canada, mostly.

4) I think you have this not completely right. The Canadian news is Canada-centric, as you can see by watching the local news or "The National" (@ 10 PM ET, w/Peter Mansbridge)... Canadians feel that they have a lot to prove & live up to because of both their major ties (to the UK and to US).

5) Loonies & toonies.

6) Yes, hockey/hockey/hockey are their first 3 fav. sports. And that Don Cherry--well, you have to see him. They even have old hockey games, at times, and pre-empt any show to show more hockey. Next MAY be curling; ask about the Furby Four the next time you are there. ;-)

Grew up & now again live in Mich, not too far from Ont/Windsor. When I was growing up, most ppl had a mixture of both American and Canadian change in their pockets, and stores accepted and gave both (pennies, nickels, dimes, quarters) until the huge shift of the energy crisis.

[reepnorp]

Originally Posted by Some Guy

I called information for a # in TX--when they actually used to connect you with the local ppl--and got a non-understandable native English speaker many yrs ago.

I live in Toronto and deal with people all over the globe in my job, mainly through email. One of our partner companies is American Airlines, which is based in Texas. I had to join a conference call with them once and good lord, I couldn't understand a word that was being said. I felt really bad because this was with people I'd emailed on a near daily basis for months, and the first time actually speaking with them I couldn't for the life of me figure out what they were saying.